Marshall MHZ40C Haze 40 Schematic Anyone?

[pacAir]

I have been looking for a schematic for the Marshall Haze 40 combo for months with no hits. I requested these twice from both Marshall and Korg but got no reply.

I have already repaired a "basket case" without a schematic but I bought another broken one and might need the schematic to save me some time!

Here's a link to my first Haze repair:

Marshall Haze 40 Repair Narrative

Thanks,


Steve

[Enzo]

If you are in the USA, did you CALL KorgUSA in NY?

[pacAir]

Magical Mystery Support Communications...

Thanks for the schematic (where did you find it?)

No, I did not CALL Korg USA.

Since they have a website AND a support link to send an e-mail inquiry I went that route (twice) and never even got a reply. If they offer an electronic method of communication I trust they are reading the mail (if their own system is working properly and someone is indeed getting it). Being ignored is all too common on the web and this same mindset seems to occur at companies that refuse to provide schematics at all.

On the same page as the support inquiry form is a phone number to check order status only and they don't offer a support-related phone number on their own support page! At the time I was first looking for a schematic I didn't yet have the need of one so I wasn't going to go to great lengths to try and dig out the right phone number and person to talk to.

Thanks! You have had much better luck locating one than I have.


Steve

[Enzo]

I always recommend calling companies, especially if the email route didn't succeed.

They get hundreds if not thousands of emails, and especially around holiday time, it is real easy to lose an email in the shuffle. Having a human on the phone not only makes you harder to misplace, but it also makes more opportunities for someone there to bend the rules a little.

In the case of Marshal, KorgUSA is their USA distributor, but many people report MArshall itself in the UK is pretty responsive.

I pulled the schematic off my dealer support site.

[pacAir]

Perhaps it is time for me to re-evaluate my choices of communication.

I have been at this a long time (35+ years playing and repairing) so I can remember DECADES with no internet and phone calls (at prevailing long distance rates) were the ONLY communications path (except for snail-mail).

With EVERYONE calling (and Long Distance being relatively expensive compared to now), it did not take too many 45 minutes wait periods on the phone to get to talk to some low-level support person who was not empowered to be any real help in YOUR situation. I gave up calling for the most part unless absolutely necessary. For at least 50% of the gear I fix I don't even bother looking for schematics. However, given the choice I think we all would like the "road map" before we take a wrong turn.

With the dawn of the internet, many companies shifted their support crews to favor e-mail instead of phone service and this brought back the long wait times on the phone again. A more enlightened company (Fender, for example) will publish to the web the schematics and manuals on EVERYTHING the minute it becomes available so you do not have to field requests for standard product documentation. In the last 20 years I have never had to call Fender to get information on anything they make. It is all available to anyone on their support website (which is separate from their main site and requires more detailed registration).

Restricting this sort of info to a "Dealers Only" web site is short-sighted in my opinion. Technically savvy techs and owners have legitimate reasons for seeking this documentation so why restrict it? This gives the impression you have something to hide. It saves the company money if they simply publish it so it can be found without further human intervention.

Anyway, soapbox/rant mode is now suppressed (never fully turned off, of course). Thanks again for the schematic!


Steve

[Steve Conner]

Technically savvy techs and owners have legitimate reasons for seeking this documentation so why restrict it? This gives the impression you have something to hide.

That's exactly why they want to restrict it, they don't want their competitors seeing it. Or like Behringer, you're not expected to fix it, just throw it away when it breaks, which saves them the cost of maintaining a support network.

I always found that phone calls were more reliable. In this day and age of spam and spam filtering, you don't know that your e-mail even got there, but if someone answers a phone, you have proof that your call got there. If it's something that would be more convenient to e-mail than spell out over the phone, then I'll e-mail it and call them to see if they got it.

BTW, thanks for publishing your repair story on the amp. I don't own one, but it was interesting anyway.

[Enzo]

ANy time there is a patent infringement suit, one aspect is always access to your documentation. Even if you always hand out a copy upon request, you still are at least controlling access. Behringer lost a large infringement suit to MAckie some years back. They have been extremely tight with their documents ever since.

Look on many Fender schematics, there will be a paragraph explaining that the schematic is confidential, and not to be copied without written consent, yet they throw a copy in the box with each amp.

[pacAir]

I can understand why many manufacturers feel the need to exercise some form of document control. However, in the current state of the world economy (not to mention the cost of fuel & shipping) most companies AND customers are doing their best to hold the line on expenses and remain competitive. Unfortunately, this often results in foreign-made products of lesser quality with minimal customer support. This can mean products that are more prone to problems and an even greater need for support personnel.

I have also seen "manufacturers" interpreting their own warranties in their own favor or trying to shuffle you over to to the retailer because they do not maintain a stock of parts (for "expendable" foreign-made devices) and the people qualified to handle the support and repair end of the business.

I only suggest that it is in their best interest to support anyone who will NOT burden them with phone calls and requests for factory product services. I don't mind jumping through a few hoops or signing an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) to get a set of schematics. I also don't mind sharing the results of a repair if it will help improve product quality.

Fender has schematics for all their products online (no contact required). A request to SWR via e-mail resulted in a PDF copy in my mail the next day, no strings attached. A current request to Ampeg resulted in an e-mail reply the next day requesting the serial number of the unit to be repaired and my agreement to the their terms not to post or forward the soon-to-be-supplied schematics to anyone else. All of these methods can end in the same basic result... a customer gets his gear fixed without the factory taking a charge or getting overly involved. Everyone wins!

The biggest problem with the phone call can be getting to talk to the right person! E-mail or e-support inquiries can be left at any time and can be forwarded to the correct group without taking notes on the phone for some guy who is in a different time zone and away at lunch when you call. Any company who can fill my inbox with Marketing materials should also be in a position to answer e-support inquiries, especially when they are submitted on their own web support form (not necessarily a blind e-mail that may be subject to filters).



Steve

[Enzo]

I think that is a bit of wishful thinking.

I have also seen "manufacturers" interpreting their own warranties in their own favor or trying to shuffle you over to to the retailer because they do not maintain a stock of parts (for "expendable" foreign-made devices) and the people qualified to handle the support and repair end of the business.

My shop is factory authorized repair center for Fender/Sunn/SWR, Peavey/Trace, MArshall/Vox/Korg, Samson/Hartke, Yamaha, TEAC/TACAM, Mackie/Crate/AMpeg, Behringer, and various others. I see no warranty manipulation of any kind. Most companies bend over backwards for the customer. Not one has so far tried to nickel and dime any of my customers, nor even get hardcore if the warranty expired three days earlier. They "shuffle you off" to the retail level - me - because that is the service network THEY HAVE PROVIDED. Look at companies like Nady - no service network, no support outside their own facility. They are the exception. Fender, Marshall, PV, et al. have set up a network of servicing dealers to make qualified service available to the consumer who buys from them. Some companies will deal direct - Peavey - while others - like Fender - will exclusively refer you to the local retail service provider. If you buy a car from Ford, and you need parts or service, you go to the local dealer, you don;t contact Ford direct. Same deal. Ford doesn;t have a thousand people on the phone ready to teach back yard mechanics how to fix their own cars. RCA has no bank of phone techs to teach you how to fix their TVs.

And that minimal support? That is not about wher the thing was made, it is about the cost of the thing. If they made $40 amps right here in the USA, they STILL would not pay warranty centers $50 to fix them.

I only suggest that it is in their best interest to support anyone who will NOT burden them with phone calls and requests for factory product services. I don't mind jumping through a few hoops or signing an NDA (Non-Disclosure Agreement) to get a set of schematics. I also don't mind sharing the results of a repair if it will help improve product quality.

And herein lies the wishful thinking. The percentage of customers who would request schematics is tiny. HAnding them out schematics won;t address the bottom line either way. NDA? Worthless with a customer. If I sign and then break an NDA, they can yank my ticket and sever our relationship. They have exactly zero leverage over an individual. And I don;t mean this unkindly to any well meaning soul who provides it, but the vast majority of customer input (beyond a description of the problem) is worthless. Honestly, I get very earnest helpful people showing me graphs of the room temperature, the time of day when their amp failed. I see reports of tiny voltage variations. Even the song being played when the fuse blew. And I see people with elaborate inferences from a burnt part.m Warranty centers fill in technical reports on the repairs done. The factory then can see in standardized form any failure patterns that appear.

Fender has schematics for all their products online (no contact required). A request to SWR via e-mail resulted in a PDF copy in my mail the next day, no strings attached. A current request to Ampeg resulted in an e-mail reply the next day requesting the serial number of the unit to be repaired and my agreement to the their terms not to post or forward the soon-to-be-supplied schematics to anyone else. All of these methods can end in the same basic result... a customer gets his gear fixed without the factory taking a charge or getting overly involved. Everyone wins!

Fender doesn;t remotely have ALL their schematics online. They have a nice list of relatively recent models. yes, they and many others will send you drawings on request. But that procedure still is control over distribution.

You may be a competent technician, but most amp owners are not. Providing schematics is a courtesy, but no guarantee of repair. I once suggested to a guy that he check the plate voltages on his output tubes. He said thanks, "that is a great idea. Now the plate, is that the metal piece under the amplifier?" And really, I have people who have assured me they had the schematic and every thing they needed to do their own repair, only to then ask, what is that zigzag thing that says R201 next to it?

I wonder why more companies don't refuse to hand out documents. When Fender sends you a drawing, that is tacit approval for you - whom they don't know from Adam - to work inside the amp. If you electrocute yourself, they are squarely in the liability loop.


I would also add that many large comapnies have email reading software to route incoming messages. it looks for syntax and vocabulary. If it sees "parts" in your email, off tot he parts department it goes, even though the sentence was "I don't understand parts of this schematic."