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Guys, please help me out with this. I know most of you are really very very good now at winding pickups. So much so that you very rarely suffer wire breakages, if ever. I am however a novice and I haven't gotten to the point that I can guarantee that the wire will not break. My question is, what effect in the tone of the pickup would soldered joints (breaks) in the wire have? Am I correct in assuming that numerous breaks would lead to less capacitance, hence brighter tone? How many breaks (soldered joints) would you allow yourself per bobbin before you decide to just rip the wire off and start anew? Thanks in advance.
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Rip that shit off and start over! Wire is cheap enough. Seriously, It really isn't worth the TIME, or the possiblity of failure on stage. Literially. That would be creating a very bad habit, and unstable results. Please rip it off and start over. If you do decide to fuse the wire back together, you will have to insulate the wire where it has been fused. Spray Enamel. Hard clear fast drying nailpolish.............I personally would never do that. Ever. I have'nt tested, but I would ASSUME.......It could have some type of bump and ripple effect. Think of it this way...... The amount of wire wasted from you breaking and training your mind to react to a fast glitch, and winding properly, will outway itself in the long run. Money Well Spent. I'm sincerly not trying to be an ass.....doing it the right way will be rewarding.....
And remember.....Relax....and don't stress when winding. Hand guiding.....get in a comfy position first. My brother is a great assembler......LOL when he gets on the Lathe.......LOL The guy starts sweating. Funny to watch.........Have fun man........ -
Thanks for the tip. But from where I come from, wire isn't cheap, if you can find the right gauge at all. I had to order mine from Australia and some from stewmac.
Well, I guess I will just have to be very careful winding and not rush things.
Thank you again. Really appreciate your input.Comment
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well....
In the Seth Lover interview he stated that they actually DID splice breaks in the wire occasionally, if you're making pickups to sell you better not ever do it. If you're learning its no sin. You'll probably want to put tape over the solder joint though and that WILL mess with your tone if you have a bunch of taped joints in the coil. You'll quickly learn how not to break the wire, I probably only broke the wire maybe 5 times when I started. I break wire if it somehow gets tangled in the tensioner and gets stuck, but that doesn't happen often, you'll learn..http://www.SDpickups.com
Stephens Design PickupsComment
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I half agree with you. The splicing magnet wire is really hard to do, and when you are forced to use lead free solder it makes it even harder. Getting the wire to fuse without burning up the wire is tricky and it took me months to be able to do with any type of consistancy. It is a skill worth having though. Gibson used to splice the wire if they had a break. I read somewhere on the SD sometimes does on his scatter wound pickups. A lot of big name pickup makers use more than 1 size wire on their pickups too. How do do that if they don't fuse the wire??? In other words, I agree that it's not really worth the time if you are doing it for money, but I think that it's a skill that can come in handy.Originally posted by NightWinder View Post
I have some of my early pickups floating around that have been spliced 3 or 4 times. When compairing them to pickups I have made that haven't been fused, I can't really hear a difference. After I fuse the wires I wrap the solder joint with electrical tape because the joint can sometimes have sharp edges. Because of this precaustion I take, you can't fit more than a couple splices on 1 bobbin.Comment
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I have made absolutely delicious pickups that had as many as forty wire splices in 'em. Though tolerable, you should consider that:
a) any solder joint on magnet wire (even the two you're supposed to do to connect the coil to pickup leads) is a royal pain in the arse to do, so fewer is always better;
b) solder joints are not smooth and risk providing an edge that can tear the coil;
c) solder joints take up more space than the wire itself and create gaps in the coil that can produce a looser coil and much greater risk of microphonics;
d) because solder joints take space, they produce a fatter coil which may not fit adequately on the bobbin/coilform in every case.
So, try to keep the solder joints to a minimum, and make sure you pot the coil well if there are any joints within the coil. That will keep the turns from going microphonic and also provide some prophylaxis as far as coil-tearing. You may even want to semi-pot mid-winding. Personally, I'll lay the coil on its side and melt some paraffin over it, flowing the paraffin with a heat gun so that it soaks in. That is obviously not advisable if the coilform is plastic of some sort, but if you're dealing with a polepiece/flatwork configuration like a Strat/Tele pickup it can work like a charm.Comment
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Thank you again, to all those who took time out to reply to my questions. But what I really want to find out is, " How does multiple soldered joints in a coil affect the tone?"Comment
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Well, I do sell some pickups that utilize same wire gauge, different isulations, two different wire gauges all together, and even three different wires. "fusion winds"...... It is time consuming however but.... The rewards can be breath taking....What you really need to do when fusing together is really concentrate on how you are soldering the fuse. It really does;nt take much.....barely if any solder. Just enough to fuse them together. The buldge should be ever so slightly larger than the wire. Strip the wire first. Insulate the fuse with fast drying clear nail polish 3x's, letting dry throughly every application. when dry, also apply a small layer of polish where the fuse will sit on the coil, which should be near the bottom of the coil. Hand turn very very gently around the coil 10x's or so, as to not put any tension on the fused area. Rock and roll to your specified amout of turns say 2300, stop and repeat with what ever wire you are using. I would never personally use tape to insulate the wire. That will change the shape of the coil drastically. Any fusion wind I do, and you for that matter, should be throughly waxed. All the fusions I do are Waxed . YOU MUST WAX if you are fusing a break. Weather Its one or 20. Oh, and twist the bare ends.....hold one end, and use the other to twist around that. The actuall breaks should be in opposite directions from one another. And remember, when all is said and done........Its fun. Its just a pickup.... Good luck Ruel.Originally posted by Mark Hammer View Post
Order some wire from mws. get 5lbs. Like $18.00 american or so + shipping. You'll thank youself later. Trust me, you'll need it. You gotta take the plunge man!!! DO IT DO IT DO IT!!!!Comment
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The solder joint with tape takes up a lot of space. That means it moves the wire further away from the magnets which mean a pickup that is not as bright. It also means that each wind after the break will be longer causing higher resistance. So the closer the break is to the middle of the coil the larger the change in tone. Truth is, it takes a lot of breakes and a lot of splicing before you will hear any change in tone. Pickup making isn't *that* sinsitive.Originally posted by Ruel View PostComment
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Your problem with breaking may have to do with how you have your spool set. It should be at least 3 feet, preferably 4+ feet away from the winder, with the spool horizontal and pointed at the winder -- if the wire is being fed horizontally. If the wire is being fed vertically then you want the spool vertical and -- again -- pointed at the winder.
Any closer than 3-4 feet or with the spool perpendicular to the direction of wire feed will cause the wire to break pretty regularly.
I don't recommend splicing unless you are combining different wire guages or something fancy like that, which I have done from time to time. But if you DO have to splice, I have found a relatively easy way to do it:
1) Sand the end of the magnet wire coming off the pickup and twirl it a few turns on the end of a piece of hookup wire, the 28 gauge stuff, just like you're doing a coil lead for a humbucker.
2) Do the same with the magnet wire coming off the spool on the same end of the hookup wire.
3) Solder the end of the hookup wire, again like a humbucker coil lead.
4) Cut away all the hookup wire up to the point of the solder joint to make the joint as small as humanly possible.
5) Put some scotch tape over the joint to insulate it and trim away as much of the tape as possible to make the joint as small as possible without losing the insulation.
6) Continue winding.Comment
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I think it's not that critical if you're winding tight enough and repair the wire carefully. In my country the wire isn't very expensive too, but the materials are and ripping the wire off sometimes can damage the bobbins too.
(bobbins, flatwork, everything... i have to import everything, but the wire, from the US)
What I do for repairing a wire (or for "Hot rodding" stock pickups) is to solder very carefully the wire, I use soldering paste to break the enamel and get a good solder joint. Then I cut the excess wire/solder with a very sharp knife and carefully brush the solder joint with nail lacquer. If I break the wire more than once, I don't repair and usually redo the entire job, but one repair isn't a big deal. And if you're a good winder, the bobbin won't get "Fat".
The tip is to solder the break carefully and not leaving excess solder joints.
Of course, if you're breaking the wire very frequently, you need to improve your winding technique, maybe being more relaxed and focused in the wire guides.
Good luck!
BenComment
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A small nail file comes in handy for knife marks. Steal one from your woman......and if she bitches...tell her she's not getting shit for valintines day! You probably should file any sharp edges befor you start, a jagged edge can be a hidden demon, both winding and unwindingOriginally posted by OFM View PostComment
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Originally posted by NightWinder View Post
HAHAHAHA!
I don't have to steal them, i have plenty of them... (I play classic guitar too, and i'm a bit freaky with nail issues)
Seriously, I think one of the most important steps in winding is to file carefully the bobbins. The first pickups i've made, are wound with lots of "accidents" because i didn't file the bobbins with a smooth file before winding. And these accidents usually gets into a break. Now i've learned and do the job everytime before winding a new pickup or a "Ripped off" bobbin.
Greetings,
BenComment
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Some bobbins do have burrs and rough spots that will grab the wire. Learned it the hard way.Comment
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Order some wire from mws. get 5lbs. Like $18.00 american or so + shipping
I tried MWS for wire Ruel, they wanted $160US for shipping 5lbs of wire to Australia so be aware that postage might be rather expensive , Whitmore on the other hand were very reasonable with shipping , make sure you get a shipping quote first.
I use 800 grade abrasive paper for cleaning up bobbins edges , I do this on every bobbin I use , it's a good habit to get into.
MickComment
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