Concept Question

[GarrettWeeks]

Hi, I recently started recording my band play live through a Br-600 and I want to build something similar to a mixer to put anywhere from 8 to 16 1/4" Input signals into one input on the Br, without amplifying or modifying the sound, simply recording several things at the same time.

this is a picture of what im thinking of:


does anyone know if this is even possible?

also I was thinking about maybe adding sliders for each input to adjust volume, but for now I just need to know how I would do this if I can.

Thanks!

[Enzo]

What you are asking for is a mixer. There are hundreds of mixers already on the market.. If you don;t want to adjust the tone or add effects, that is fine, just leave the mixer set flat. FInd one with enough inputs to do the job you want done.

If you wanted to mix two sources together, we could make up something with a couple resistors. A "passive mixer." But a 8-16 channel passive mixer, especially when used in recording, is not the way to go in my estimation. Besides, you have mic level signals and line level signals at the same time.

[GarrettWeeks]

yeah, I realize its pretty much a mixer im looking at.
You don't know of any relatively cheap basic 16 channel mixers do you?

[Steve Conner]

Behringer make some cheap and cheerful mixers.

[Brad1]

Behringer make some cheap and cheerful mixers.

Steve....that's like recommending the brown acid at Woodstock. It's only "cheerful" until it goes bad..which it will.

Friends don't let friends buy Behringer.

Anyway, I see at LEAST 6 items that need mic inputs. If you'll mic your guitar amps, you'll need more. If you want to run your guitars directly into the mixer, then it probably won't sound very good without at least direct boxes. Maybe an amp sim box, or a POD-type thing will do.

Keys and laptop can be run direct to 1/4" in (or the laptop could probably even go to a TAPE IN, if the mixer has one, and it's just coming out the laptop's soundcard. If running an audio interface, plug into 1/4" on the mixer).

Also, I'd run into two inputs of the Boss, and get a mixer that had pan pots, so you can put stuff in different pan positions to have some semblence of stereo. (Kick, snare, lead vocal and bass guitar center...everything else negotiable). Running everything into one input, with no EQ or stereo, will result in a muddy, claustrophic mono mess. Why even bother? They at LEAST had EQ back in the days of mono recording. Since you're running direct to a final mix, you'll want some EQ control from the mixer to the Boss, or you'll end up with a truly unfixable mess. You can't "fix it in the mix".

We record our band practices through a Mackie 1604 (w/ XLR expander for 16 XLR inputs) directly to a HiFi VCR. Four drum mics (kick (center), snare (center), left and right overheads). Bass guitar center. Rhythm guitar center, and EQ'ed. Lead 1 left, eq'ed. Lead 2 right, eq'ed. We'll swap some pan positions if recording a keyboard part, instead of one of the guitars.

Get a mixer. You'll not be able to build one for those purposes as cheap as buying one.

Brad1

[booj]

I've gone through this "Lets record the band" thing with similar ideas to what you have. A pre-amped resistive mixer siucked tone from the git go. Adding tone controls didn't help. It added hiss. Using a big mixer was beneficial for seperating the instruments, but guess what? Then we realized we needed really good mics so we got them. Then guess what? We found out the better the mic the better the sound.
The ultimate soution for live recording is Mono - one good mic Stereo - Two good mics
Your recorder can do either with no hassles no hiss no noise. Just good placement.

[guitician]

You could use a unity gain quad op-amp and use the virtual ground to sum four inputs to each section, then sum the outputs to one jack.

[Enzo]

that's like recommending the brown acid at Woodstock. It's only "cheerful" until it goes bad

I don;t think that is a fair assessment at all. is the Behringer as sturdy as PV? NO. SO if I were going on the road, I'd probably chose something else. But sitting in your practice room or project studio, or wherever you have a rack that doesn't get thrown in the van, I expecst the stuff to work. But it actually works pretty well. My shop is authorized for their products, along with the various other brands, and I don;t see any particular consistent failures other than power amps. But plain old mixers don't have power amps. The power amps don;t blow up all that often, but when they do it is often fatal.


Also reminder that the original post wants a mono mix of all these things to use only one channel of his BR unit.

[GarrettWeeks]

To be honest I have a 75 watt behringer practice bass amp that I use from time to time and its actually not bad, I did work with a behringer 4 input mixer today though, it was my friends, and it was a horrible mess.

The only real reason I am looking into a mixer is because I want to mic drums because the br-600 on board stereo mics actually pick up everything in a room great.... except for drums. They dont pick up the bass drum well and the cymbals are extremely loud


my real question about the drawing was really just would all that input affect the sound due to impedance and would it be as simple as just connecting all the ins to one out, or would I need resistors and such

[Steve Conner]

Behringer is the pro-audio equivalent of McDonalds.

I tend to agree with what a previous poster said about using two good mics. Generally they produce about the same as what the audience will hear at a small gig. So maybe the mics are trying to tell you a real issue: that your drummer hits the cymbals too hard and doesn't stomp his kick drum hard enough? Or maybe your practice space is too reflective.

Will the BR600 let you plug in an external mic and record that along with the internal ones? You could use the two built-in mics plus a kick drum mic. To tone down the cymbals, move the built-in mics further away from the drum kit and into the blast from the amps.

On your question: No you can't just connect them all together, and you could probably buy a Behringer mixer for less than what it costs to buy the parts to make one.

[GarrettWeeks]

thanks guys for all the help, I'm not quite sure about using the br stereo mics along with an additional mic, I think though that once you plug another mic into the br it turns off the stereo mics. Ill go try and see what happens