should I pot my Seth Lover? how might it change

[rosssurf]

I recently put seth bridge in my PRS Mccarty and I reall like the difference between that and the "59 i had in there previously. However i do play at high volume and often with a lot of gain and feed back can be a bit of an issue. I use a Telefunken filled Egnater ie4 into a VHT 2/50/2 in to a Bogner 4x12 for my main live rig. The seth's have had the covers removed and have neoprene foam padding behind the pickup in the cavity to minimize vibration.

I was wondering if anyone has any experience or ever compared a stock Seth Lover to one that has been potted? A comparison of any similar PAF-ish pickup would be fine.



I am contemplating a quick dip in a parrafin/bees wax mix. Not a long soak 'til the bubbles go away, but just enough to coat the outer winds and NOT saturate the coils. I wonder if this might do the trick. The trick being loosing the feedback/saving the Mojo. I assume it is just a matter of where the winds are vibrating.?.

[Possum]

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You have to be real careful potting that thing. The bobbins are butyrate plastic which melts at 150 degrees, so you need a controlled wax bath at about 140 degrees. They are also wrapped with paper tape and wax isn't going to soak through that, and I doubt enough wax would get in through the single hole in each bobbin to make a difference for high gain playing. So you'd have to pot it after removing the paper tape so the wax can permeate the coil, and that is really a job for a pickup maker as you can easily break the tiny wire to the coil and once broken its dead. I just did a TTop for a loud player and it was a pain in the butt to do and requires complete disassembly of the whole pickup. Yes it will change but at high gain high volume I don't think you'll hear a big difference, some top end may get lost in the wax but a change in EQ should fix that.

[David Schwab]

They are also wrapped with paper tape and wax isn't going to soak through that...

I wrap my bobbins with paper tape and the wax gets all the way into the coil with no problem. I leave them in about 10 minutes.

[Dave Kerr]

Well, if you're using perfboard, of course it'll work! <joking>

[David Schwab]

Well, if you're using perfboard, of course it'll work! <joking>

Not any more! Now they are plastic. Not butyrate though. Polycarbonate.



I have tried drilling some holes in them for the wax, but I really didn't need to.

[Possum]

...

Well those coils you show in the photo are open, so of course they'll soak up wax. A tightly paper tape wrapped humbucker coil only has one tiny hole. The only potting of buckers I've done was my first set but it had covers, that works pretty well, but these guys who have to use foam to keep the pickup from vibrating in the ring really need a solidly wax encased coil if there's no cover. I've got a couple single wrapped bobbins around here, think I'll try it and see if anything gets through into the coil, kinda doubt it though...worth a try, I'll try anything once...

[David Schwab]

Well those coils you show in the photo are open, so of course they'll soak up wax. A tightly paper tape wrapped humbucker coil only has one tiny hole. The only potting of buckers I've done was my first set but it had covers, that works pretty well, but these guys who have to use foam to keep the pickup from vibrating in the ring really need a solidly wax encased coil if there's no cover. I've got a couple single wrapped bobbins around here, think I'll try it and see if anything gets through into the coil, kinda doubt it though...worth a try, I'll try anything once...

They aren't open at all, except on the sides where the wire is wound. There is no place for the wax to get into the coils except going past the tape. The core has plastic between the wire and the blade. I see the bubbles coming right out from the tape. The bobbins are clear plastic so maybe that's what you are seeing.

The hot wax is like water and can seep into the smallest space. If you dropped a tapped bobbin in water would it get wet in the middle of the coil? Of course it would.

I was actually quite surprised when I had to cut the wire from a bobbin, and the coil was quite solid.

[rosssurf]

Thanks for the help guys. If I was to succesfully remove the paper tape, might a quick dip to coat the outer winding be enough to possibly solve the problem and avoid killing the tone?

Is it the outer most wraps tha tend to be the most likely to vibrate and causing feedback? or can it be anywhere and anyones guess.

If I have to let it soak in the wax long enough to completely wick through the coil AND I am lucky enough to do so without melting the bobbins, How might I expect the tone to change?

Can anyone recomend a cheap thermometer that would be good for potting.

90/10 mix? or is it 80/20?

[Possum]

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I've got to do some potting tonite, so will try a wrapped bucker bobbin and see how far it penetrates and let you know later. You can get a cheap meat thermometer at any chain grocery store, like Fred Meyer in their kitchen stuff department. All you need is canning paraffin wax from the baking department, you don't need beeswax. Don't go above 140 degrees or the bobbins will deform. Paraffin melts around 130 or so. I don't how you are going to control the temperature, best to use a double boiler, water in one pot and the wax pot sunk in that and you definitely need to creep the temperature up a tiny bit at a time and get it stable before putting the pickup in. If the temp creeps up you'll get a wrecked pickup. Wrap a single rubber band around the two bobbins to keep the tape from coming off. I'll post results later tonite....

[David Schwab]

Here's a trick... tie a knot in the rubber band a leave a small loop. It makes it easier to remove since it gives you something to grab onto.

[Possum]

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OK, it did pot to the core, my paper tape didn't come off either, the rubber band fell off and tape was fine. So yeah you should be fine keeping the tape on, though I did notice the edges of the tape may have lifted up a little and wax got in that way. Seymour uses real sticky tape, not like the stuff I'm using. But worth a try. Staying below 150 degrees is the key. I use an old skillet with temp adjustment on it like Leo Fender liked and have it set to what I use, might be tricky trying to do this on a stove and double boiler...

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

I've used a double boiler with a propane camping range. The gas gives waaay more control over temperature, as any foodies around here will tell you. If you have a range with an electrical element or - even worse - one of those glass top ranges, make sure you can keep it steady at a certain temperature for a while before dropping the pickup in.

Stew mac recommends their glue pot: STEWMAC.COM : Electric Glue Pot

Aside from being overpriced, how well does it work? I wonder if a crock pot or fryer would work equally well.

As for sonic changes, I haven't done a direct a/b comparison yet. Some one here must have, so I'm surprised no one has chimed in. Jason Lollar has said in the past that there is a change, but it can be minimal if you don't leave a ridiculous amount of wax on there and be sure to wipe it clean.

[Dave Kerr]

If you use a double boiler with a large enough resevoir of water the thermal mass of the water should make temperature changes gradual enough to control it pretty easily.

[rosssurf]

Thanks for the tips and info guys! I will do the double boiler thing and be very carefull about gradually setting temperature.

I am very curious to hear what differences others have noticed when comparing potted vs. non-potted.

[David Schwab]

Stew mac recommends their glue pot: STEWMAC.COM : Electric Glue Pot

Aside from being overpriced, how well does it work? I wonder if a crock pot or fryer would work equally well.

No, don't use that! I got one of these from Amazon:

Amazon.com: HoMedics ParaSpa Plus Paraffin Bath - PAR-300: Health & Personal Care

$29.99 ! It's made to melt wax and never over heats. You can leave it on 24 hours a day. It only gets hot enough to melt the wax.

It even comes with 3lbs of wax. It's a paraffin/paraffin oil blend. It works really well. it can hold a lot of bobbins. I had 12 in there at one time.