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Thread: GFS type NYII pickups

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    GFS type NYII pickups

    This will probably sound like a stupid question to most of you but since it's coming from me, it's par for the course. Shows you how much I don't know.
    What effect would removing the existing cover from a GFS NYII pickup and replacing it with a toaster type cover have. Would the metal from the new in contact with the tops of the posts short anything out or would it not matter?

    I have been having much difficulty making keeping continuity with my bobbin winding. The winder works fine but I seem to not be able to get a reading with the V-O meter. I've been using Schatten 42 wire with poly insulation, which you folks said does not need to be sanded for soldering. I have also not been covering the AlNiCo 5 rod magnets with any sort of insulation but winding right up against the magnets. Not sure if this is a probblem. In any event, I have a couple of GFS II pickups that I would like to cover with a toaster cover until I can get the correct pickups rewound for the RIC. I am very frustrated and at a loss. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. Thx, j

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    The toaster covers probably wont change the tone much at all.

    When you use solderable wire, you really have to heat up the wire. I start out with a lead wire about 2 inches long with about 1/4" stripped and tinned, and then I wrap the magnet wire around the tinned end a bunch of times, and then solder that joint with my iron set at 700. I heat the wire just until the insulation is starting to deform. Then I fold a small piece of paper tape over the connection. If I'm winding on a plastic bobbin, I tape that end to the inside of the bobbin, so the tape covers the connection.

    If you can't get a good connection that way, try sanding or using a butane lighter. Just pass the flame from the lighter quickly past the magnet wire a few times. You should see a small puff of smoke as the insulation burns off. Hole the flame under it too long and the magnet wire will melt.

    You should wrap some tape over your magnets or you might get a short. The tape wont alter the tone. At the very least put some tape on the end two magnets.

    What's wrong with the Ric pickups?

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    Old Timer RedHouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hondo49 View Post
    ...until I can get the correct pickups rewound for the RIC. ...
    I can help you with that if you wish

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    David, thanks much for the tip about the 2" lead wire. That should help get things started. I will definitely wrap the rod mags with a piece of tape too. The original pickups were pretty much a mess and in need of new everything. I don't have the luxury of spending $150 plus x 3 for new RIC pickupe so I need to fix what I have. In essence the only original parts that are reusable are the magnets, covers, screws and grommets. I made new bobbins out of some black pickguard material and purchased the wire from Schatten in Canada. I'll try again later this week and hope for the best. Thanks again, J

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    Cool

    Thanx RedHouse. I appreciate the offer. If I continue to flop at this pickup thing, I may need to take you up on your offer. Actually I'm a drummer who got tired of not being able to contribute with my bandmates melodically, so i began playing a few years ago. I have actually spent more on guitar stuff than drums over the past several years. My band buddies and I are huge Beatles fans as is most of the world, especially the early sound of the Revolver, Rubber Soul, Beatles '65 era. Love the distinctive RIC, Hofner and Gretsch sounds so prevelant in many of those cuts. Lennon's guitar in 'She's a Women" for example really jumps out and exemplifies the early to mid Beatles sound. j

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hondo49 View Post
    I've been using Schatten 42 wire with poly insulation...
    If this is for Ric style pickups, it's the wrong wire gauge. They use 44 AWG.

    You can wind them with 42, but they wont sound like Ric pickups. That doesn't mean they will sound bad though.

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    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. Albert Einstein


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    Old Timer Possum's Avatar
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    ....

    You really should get in the practice of removing the insulation from the wire before you solder, doesn't matter if its solderable or not, its just a better practice to have a good connection BEFORE you solder. Just use some 400 grit carbide type sand paper, fold a small piece in half and very gently grip the wire and sand it a couple times until you see bright copper. Your magnets need SOME kind of insulation on them, whether it be a lacquer dip and let it dry a couple days or tape over them magnets. You're just asking for trouble and the wire will short out on the magnets. You can an ohmeter and touch your magnets then your finish lead and if you get any kind of reading you've shorted the coil to the magnets.

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    http://www.SDpickups.com
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    Thanks guys. Possum, I will try removing the insulation first before all of the winding and then risk breaking the wire. As far as wire gauge goes, I first tried winding with 43awg wire but it was like baby hair and continually broke. Out of frustration I switched to 42 hoping the additional thickness would be less likely to break. Has anyone tried using paint stripper to remove insulation, then giving the wire a good cleaning with alchocol? J

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hondo49 View Post
    Thanks guys. Possum, I will try removing the insulation first before all of the winding and then risk breaking the wire.
    You don't need to remove the insulation. It's made to burn off with heat. I've had no luck with sand paper, and found it weakened the wire too much. Obviously others swear by it. I sweared at it!

    As far as wire gauge goes, I first tried winding with 43awg wire but it was like baby hair and continually broke. Out of frustration I switched to 42 hoping the additional thickness would be less likely to break.
    Wind slower to start with. You will get the feel for it. I used to break wire in the beginning too. Now I wind 46 AWG with no problems.

    Also how are you despooling the wire as you wind? Put the spool on the floor in front of you, and let it spool off the top. For the little Stew-Mac spools I used to stick on a cup holder, the ones that look like trees.

    Has anyone tried using paint stripper to remove insulation, then giving the wire a good cleaning with alchocol? J
    Just heat it up longer. What kind of soldering iron are you using? What's the wattage?

    Alternately use a butane lighter. That's what I used to do. Now I just solder the leads to the magnet wire. As long as I heat it up for a few seconds it works fine. One way to tell is hold the other end of the lead between your fingers. When it's getting too hot to hold you got a good solder joint.

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    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. Albert Einstein


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    Old Timer RedHouse's Avatar
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    As David said, you shouldn't have to remove the insulation on "solderable" poly/nylon magnet wire before soldering, the solder and rosin displace the poly/nylon when the proper temperature is reached and the solder makes a good connection.
    (proper temperature is the key here)

    Personally I stay away from using a lighter or match to melt/burn-off insulation, the flame and burning add too much contaminants and oxidization into the joint IMHO.

    Here's a couple more tips on soldering "solderable" magnet wire.

    First tip:
    This is one of those places where a cheap iron does really well, while I do indeed have a nice ($) temperature-controlled "soldering station" I use for electronics, when it comes to soldering fine wire like this I tend to fall back on this 'ol iron:
    (set to it's 30W setting)

    Dual-wattage Soldering Iron - RadioShack.com

    which uses inexpensive tips ($1.99)

    Replacement Tip for 64-2055 - RadioShack.com

    The inexpensive tips are important in this way; the thing you'll want to do is chuck the tip into a hand drill and run the tip against a file or fine grinder (keeping the angle) to remove the nickel plating on the tip. When you have the tip to bare copper, run it a bit more on some 400-600 grit paper to make it smooth again. Pre-heat the iron before you screw the tip back in. When the iron's hot screw the tip in and tin it immediately when it becomes hot enough to accept (melt) solder.

    Now you have a nice copper tipped iron and it will solder things much quicker than a nickel coated tip. Bare copper tips don't last very long that is why they nickel plate them, so you will have to re-dress the tip for each soldering session but you can re-dress (file smooth and re-tin) the tip numerous times before it's done. Also use a metal soldering sponge to get the gunk off between soldering each wire.

    Second tip:
    When you cut your short wire leads to attach the magnet wire to, you'll want to strip and tin the ends before trying to solder the magnet wire onto it. Pre-tinning the lead-wire will help greatly.

    After you strip-n-tin the end (1/4" or so) of the lead-wire, you want to wrap the magnet wire around the lead wire in the area you just tinned, at least 6 or 8 wraps before you attempt the solder joint.

    When you solder, melt a little dab on the end of the iron's tip then touch the tip to the joint, very gently rubbing the joint along the lead wire's axis.

    With a little practice you will find that the pre-tinned lead wire combined with the dab of solder on your coppper tip will heat and displace the insulation of the SPN quickly and correctly ...every time.

    Use thin solder like at least some .025" (or smaller) as the larger diameter solders (.032 and greater) are harder to control on very small wires and connections.

    Don't forget to attach your DMM/VOM to the other ends of the leads and test your new solder connections before taping it all up or potting it. This way you can tell that the solder joint is good at this point, and if you have problems later after taping it up and/or potting it you will know the problem occured after the soldering step and you can focus on your taping and/or potting technique.

    I've attached a couple pics to help visualize the soldering I'm describing, hopefully this has been helpful.
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    Guys, thanks so much. Especially the pictures. I now get it. The Chinese were brilliant in their wisdom about pictures and the thousand words thing. Thanks for being so helpful. I'll let you know how I make out. J......

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    Great advice. Thanks to Gurus like this guy.

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