OTPG -what is that?

[Sam Lee Guy]

I would no more send 600.00 to someone who is a mystery, nor do I know where the money is going and have no idea what the pickups are going to sound like in my guitar, nor and warranty, claimed or otherwise. From what I am getting is this, you send your money to a middle man, then you wait then they send your pickups??? What a load of horse Shit!!! If the dam guy is on the up and up he would be readily available to whoever wants to buy his pickups. OTPG, yeah I want to send him 600.00 right away about as much as I want a boil on my ass the size of an apple..Geeez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your dilemma velly easy, just make them yourself, or buy them direct from Spence....oops!

Hey, you know when Sam make special order for Gibson guitar for customer, he pay thousands of pounds to middleman then wait for guitar.
Guy who make OTPG pickup already overloaded with work for vintage dealers and big name guitarists. Also he not in velly good health. Why should he kill himself working more than possible to make pickup available to anyone who want to buy? From what he tell me, he not want to sell more pickup, but people always want to buy.

[clown_luthier]

You think he really that old?

haha, i even don't know how old he is exactly, but i do know for sure that i must eat a lot to grow like him

(and i think that is quite impossible in this modern time, with so expensive vintage stuff to learn so much like he know)

[JGundry]

Just buy mine. I have all my parts made for me on this side of the pond and the price is not $600.00 ........... yet.

[StarryNight]

I have tried to find some information about the "over the pond guy" PAF´s . They look very convincing, and there is a lot of talk about these pickups in different forums

I have an email from Bob from OTPG sales, that they can only be purchased from him in the States. Thist is not practical for me as I live in Denmark.
I would like to try these pickups just to see what the fuzz is all about.
All that mystique that surrounds these pickups, is it just smart marketing, misuse of the forums, or is it true " that there is an old man in UK",
who is making the best PAF replicas ever, with his own "homemade" components, exact 50. style alnico magnets etc.
Somebody suggests that some of You are using some of the same components!
What is the truth, or is it all a joke or what?
Please tell me before I order a set an pay more than 200$ in tax,VAT ans shipping from the states, and someone will laugh, because I believed in all this mojo!

well, to make consistent pickups with specific parts one has to probably have a fairly large operation (and investment) to order in bulk. He probably has specific suppliers and recipies for his keepers, slugs, screws, baseplates, magnets, covers, bobbins etc. maybe he has NOS wire, maybe not. From the pictures I've seen they look pretty nice if you're into that relic look. some of the audio clips sound convincing. It seems like he makes a good product and is as described. I don't think there is any deception here. If you want to pay $600 for some PAF replicas go for it! I think those that make the purchase will convince themselves that they are the best PAF replicas based on what they paid. It's an effective marketing stragedy. I don't know who's buying his pickups for him to investment so heavily in his business. there are no Youtube videos, no website, no magazine articles, no endorsers, no advertising. If he's ill maybe someone will take over his business, maybe it will shut down. Is there any warranty on his product? 30 day money back guarantee if not satisfied? Brand loyalty is a common marketing strategy amoung pickup makers so it's strange when a business defers not to have any brand loyalty.

[clown_luthier]

it is not a beauty in parts, i like them cause aging is briliant, and of course sound is something that is on first place, and OTPG have that special sound

another thing is man's experience...when you calculate months of aging on pickups and all the parts custom made, not now when internet is available, he have his parts 25 years ago made, from ZERO, not like we buy left overs of some big pickup makers, like screws...

p.s. i think almost 90% of information we know now about PAFs are from that man, we didn't get them from Holmes, or Mills, he was so kind to teach most of us "how to" and "what to use or what to make (parts)"

i wish i can buy more of his pickups

[nhall]

OTPG

Shame...shame ...shame..

A couple of the above (they know who they are) are spot on....other, who are only trying to put another maker down clearly haven't a clue what they are talking about!!

In proper columbo style lets examine the facts shall we:-

1. those with all the negativity are hanging their hat on this '$600-650' thing ... well, as I've already explained, we have a certain US citizen to thank for this (absolutely nothing to do with the OTPG) who spotted someone quietly producing a mini work of art, and decide he'd buy a few, and then double the price, and try and market them (without any reference to the maker at all) to make himself some money .... nice eh! ... especially as he's apparently now responsible for giving the maker a reputation as a rip-off man!! ... well folks looks like one or two have been had by this 'self appointed' agent. .. and like a pack of hungry wolves .. the rest are only too pleased to run along behind to attack someone who simply wishes to quietly get on with serving those customers who do appreciate him / respect him, and what he does so learnedly and so well. ... and lets get one thing straight, and stop the price attacks for good...he has never directly sold his pickups to anyone for anywhere near the figures being quoted ... listen carefully...its self-appointed agents who have multiplied his price many times for their own gain !!!

2. A man who has vast knowledge, and who has far more work than he can easily handle (and who, incidentally is constantly getting ripped off by other due to his own very trusting and helpful nature), when he produces something a cut above, just gets pestered to death by no-hoper's just wanting to make a buck on his back ... so, no, he doesn't want to be contacted by any more rip-off merchants, and, no, he doesn't want people taking up all his cherished work time constantly pumping him for information and offering nothing back in return, he has far more to do than spend his time knocking up pickups for others to use to sully his name with/rip him off with!... In fact he is'nt bother at all making pickups for anyone, but if someone asks for them he'll try and find some time to make some ... that's how it really is ...
I only offered to help, because I know him, deeply respect him, highly value him as a friend, and would take absolutely nothing for helping out... and clearly would help shield him from any further nuisance (and let me tell you, he's had far too much of it, from all sides)..

3. There are no antics .. there is no majic ... there is no hype from the source ... just a very learned / knowledgeable, and highly skilled craftsman, who makes specific items for specific clients (I'm actually not talking pickups here ... pickups were only ever a mere side-line (and still would be if required by someone) ... nothing more ... there's no competition, and certainly no comparisons being brokered from source
$. VALUE! ...I thought (perhaps rather naively) ... in any market, this was what people are happy paying for a product .... so! ... so what!... the value in this case is being picked on by the uninformed because they think it was being valued too highly!!....by who!?..well the strange thing here is, not as highly as you think by OTPG, because, as I've said he never sold them for the price quoted ... I'm not 100% sure, but his price from source was only ever around half that figure ... so please do get your facts right before blasting off and criticizing ... because you are not in fact criticizing OTPG, you are criticizing just a 'bozo' clown from the good ol' USofA when you throw those silly figures around ....... but, evidence I hear you cry ... well, I understand the ol' 'clown' has sold a number of sets for silly money, and the owners are more than happy ... so much so, the clown wants more, and more!! ... are you telling those happy (American as I understand) customers that they are all idiots.... how on earth can you judge, when clearly you have'nt got any (unless you stolen them, or been sold some kind of pickup as an OTPG by another party)..LT!?

Bottom line, all you 'pack-hounds' and 'cereal disser's'...unless you've actually had a product ... don't start criticizing what you don't know.....and, unless you've got your facts right first, don't presume .... you're all way off on the price ... way off on the person behind them who simply would rather be totally left alone ... and way off on what goes into the product.....

END OF.....

Still want some!? .. I'll help for no return if you are serious and cut this 'gem' some slack..OK.

[Peter Naglitsch]

When someone goes off like this I always start to think: Whats in it for him?

[nhall]

What's in for him!?

..Answer is simple ... and probably not easily understood by some here..

Respect..
Friendship..
General willingness to help others you yourself trust..
A chance to give something back to someone who has helped you..

For the record ... I'm a full time designer ... I sure my piers would agree pretty successful in my own field (I'm my companies 'design' man) ... so bottom line again, is I don't need anything from anyone here ... but, I love it, and am always interested ... and amongst a select few in the UK, I play my part in helping with certain aspects of material supply ... and where I can / where the opportunity arises ... passing on information gleaned from my own endeavorer!! .... sorry no self interest .. no conspiracy ... something here reminds me of a saying involving adog, barking, and a tree...but perhaps you need to be english to get that one..

It's ok, I've calmed down now ... back to my day job .. designing ...and chilled!
OTPG doesn't care if people want to buy his p/ups or not ... he has other stuff to do ... too much of it ... not enough hours in the day .. too many unwelcome distractions ... even I thought twice about speaking to him the other day before posting a response on his behalf .. no, I wouldn't be so presumptive as to speak out for someone if it wasn't appreciated!

[peskywinnets]

If there's someone profiteering from his craftmanship & good nature over in the States ....why does he continue to supply that person?

[David Schwab]

well, to make consistent pickups with specific parts one has to probably have a fairly large operation (and investment) to order in bulk.

That's not hard to do. I make consistent pickups with specific parts. And I'm a small operation.

He probably has specific suppliers and recipies for his keepers, slugs, screws, baseplates, magnets, covers, bobbins etc. maybe he has NOS wire, maybe not.

Right, maybe not, we have no idea what he uses. He might have found a formula to make good sounding pickups using off the shelf parts.

But everyone has specific suppliers for parts, no?

[David Schwab]

Bottom line, all you 'pack-hounds' and 'cereal disser's'...unless you've actually had a product ... don't start criticizing what you don't know.....and, unless you've got your facts right first, don't presume .... you're all way off on the price ... way off on the person behind them who simply would rather be totally left alone ... and way off on what goes into the product.....

Unless you are going to do a double blind listening test to show us how these are superior you are just talking. So if others here who also know about pickups are taking it all with a grain of salt, so be it. I never heard of this guy and could care less.

I'm not even convinced that we should care about PAFs at all. It's a big fad right now. If people liked those style pickups so much, why did so many replace them with louder pickups? because fashion and music changes over time. 20 years from now people will be into something else. It's just one tone out of many you can get from a guitar. It's not a uniform we all have to wear to belong to a club. Plus, since most people have never heard a real PAF, who cares? Most people will use what sounds good, even if it doesn't sound like a "real" PAF, and of course they were all over the map tone wise.

As far as aging parts.. people who take care of their guitar, and wash their hands every so often, don't have rusty looking guitars, even if they are 50 years old. The guitars I mean. 50 year old people often get rusty.

So it sounds like a lot of hype to me.

[StarryNight]

Right, maybe not, we have no idea what he uses. He might have found a formula to make good sounding pickups using off the shelf parts.

But everyone has specific suppliers for parts, no?

yes, very true. I have no reference point with this particular guy. My deduction is based from the other fine makers on this board who put a lot of time, money and energy into producing a pickup with the PAF recipe.

We have some interesting (and entertaining) characters in this story. We have the protagonist, the Christ figure who is the innocent; going about his work turning water into wine and other sundry miracles. We have the antagonist, the Judas figure who exploits the protagonist over at the les paul forum. Like the carney barker he promises the extraordinary and takes your money. Then there are the desciples, the witnesses to the miracles who are close to the protagonist and defend his character. Very epic indeed.

If I were to filter this down, it sounds like a lovely old guy who knows his shit about making a good PAF replica but, like most artists, has no business sense what so ever, does not do his own marketing, has no time for it, and has made the mistake of having someone in the US represent him who marks up the price for his own personal gain. The animosity toward the pickup maker comes from the traditional idea that the captain of the boat steers the ship. When the boat hit an iceberg you don't blame the navigator, you blame the captain. Ultimately he is responsable for all aspects of his ship (aka business).

In defence of the rest of us plebs, I don't think there is much competition among pickup makers. We mostly try to compete with our own selves to make the best pickup possible. Everyone has their own niche and on many levels are artists trying to tap into the creative ether. This mystery pickup maker is no different. Let him be. He may be some iconic rock figure, he may be some bloke in a small town with an agoraphobic disorder - who cares really. Good story though!

[jonson]

50 year old people often get rusty.

Dammit. I'm so rusty there's bits flaking off me now.

[David Schwab]

If I were to filter this down, it sounds like a lovely old guy who knows his shit about making a good PAF replica but, like most artists, has no business sense what so ever, does not do his own marketing, has no time for it, and has made the mistake of having someone in the US represent him who marks up the price for his own personal gain. The animosity toward the pickup maker comes from the traditional idea that the captain of the boat steers the ship. When the boat hit an iceberg you don't blame the navigator, you blame the captain. Ultimately he is responsable for all aspects of his ship (aka business).

Oh yeah, I have no problem with the guy and It sounds like he makes a good pickup. I did have a problem with us here being called "'pack-hounds' and 'cereal disser's'" ... since this is a pickup makers forum, and a lot of people here make great sounding PAF style pickups.

I also think anyone has every right to think that $600 is way too much for a set of pickups, no matter how good they are.

[Plucky]

Bottom line, all you 'pack-hounds' and 'cereal disser's'

I have nothing negative to say about cereal. I eat it for breakfast.



This image has it all...