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  • Light sensitive stuff

    In another thread, we drifted off into light sensitivity of parts.

    One time I was servicing a dollar bill acceptor - a currency validator for a change machine - and had pretty much gotten the repair done. You insert a dollar bill into the slot, and if the system recognizes it as a legitimate piece of currency, it pulls a solenoid and starts a motor to pull the bill into inventory, and it then outputs a "vend" signal - a pulse - that triggers the rest of the system to dispense coins once the bill has cleared. I have a soft spot for these change machines, because they were the topic of the first traiining lecture/demonstration I ever wrote.

    The thing would sit there on my bench and accept bills and output vends all I wanted. I tilted the unit on its face to access an adjustment and CLAMP, it cycles through a vend pulse. No bill required. Of course in the change machine no one will be putting it on its face, but it still seemed like a problem.

    I went nuts tring to find why this thing would vend when put on its face, but worked normal sitting upright. Looked for loose conductors that might sway, loose solder joints that might do who knows what.

    I ultimately discovered that there was a light sensitive component on the small control board in the thing, and whenever I tipped it forward, the bright light over my bench triggered this transistor into conduction, which initiated the vend pulse cycle.

    The same lesson is learned over and over, and I am no exception, things do not happen in isolation, you can't ever forget the environment a system lives in. The problem was not in the unit itself, it was in the environment.
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  • #2
    The real question is, could you get change by shining a flashlight in the slot?

    You can forget the environment the system lives in, if you live off an endless succession of research grants, designing products that nobody wants to buy.
    "Enzo, I see that you replied parasitic oscillations. Is that a hypothesis? Or is that your amazing metal band I should check out?"

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    • #3
      Ah... well no, no flashlight vends. When the unit was in its enclosure everything works fine and securely. Bright light entering where none can get under operating conditions, caused the problem.

      I actually made up a set of fake bills - Xerox copies and such - to test the validator for rejection of false bills. White paper was overly reflective, a blank rear face was detected, and etching line spacing was checked, IR transmission through the bill is checked.
      Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

      Comment


      • #4
        Forum note to FBI....... He is only kidding about making copies of US currency. No need for any legal action.

        Enzo: What is with the new avatar? I can't make out what is in the picture.

        Comment


        • #5
          I worked on a guitar amp one time that developed an obnoxious hum while I was working on it. I don't remember what the original complaint was, but it wasn't hum. It was intermittent and I worked on it for hours before I realized that the positioning of my hand over the circuit board had something to do with it. Turns out there was a capacitor that was light sensitive and I had pulled my swingarm lamp overhead while I worked on it. My hand would create shadows on it while I was poking at solder connections and what-not, causing it to stop and start and get louder or softer. Maddening. And like Enzo said, in it's normal environment, there was no problem.

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          • #6
            When my shop was across town, I was working on an amp one time that had an intermittent buzz. It was a regular pattern, it would buzz for like 45 seconds to a minute, then quiet down, than a minute later it would buzz some more. Over and over. I could not for the life of me find the source. I put the amp aside and started working on some other amp. SAME SYMPTOM! I looked all over the shop for something that couold be making that noise signal. I went to the showroom next door and turned off all the neon window signs, I shut down the FX display arrray in the showroom. I turned off everything I could find. I verified the furnace was not cycling.

            SO I left the thing running through the shop speaker, and stepped out onto the front step for a moment of fresh air, and I happened to glance at the traffic light at the corner a half block away. Whenever the red light was lit for east-west, my amp made the noise, as soon as the colors changed away from that, quiet. It was a noisy triac in the traffic light control box.

            Geez, I have enough to think about.


            The avatar? That is a sumo wrestler, ski-jumping. I am hoping they make that an olympic sport.
            Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Enzo View Post
              The avatar? That is a sumo wrestler, ski-jumping. I am hoping they make that an olympic sport.
              Oh hell yeah!
              "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

              "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

              "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
              You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

              Comment


              • #8
                Talking 'bout light sensitive components, and especially the ones which aren't "expressly designed" to behave that way, I remember that, when I was a kid, in the early/mid '70s, I started to experiment with opto-electronics using some Germanium transistors (they still were pretty common). Seems to me they were Mullard or Valvo OC44, OC45 and the like (the OC71 had a metal housing AFAICR).

                Their envelope was made of a translucent plastic, covered by a black paint. I used to scratch the paint away from the top and use them as a sort of "poor man photo-transistors". ("Real" opto-electronic components were relatively "new" and pretty expensive back then).

                Nice memories of a "wasted" youth!

                Cheers

                Bob
                Hoc unum scio: me nihil scire.

                Comment


                • #9
                  AAArgg!!?!

                  Get rid of this douche
                  "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                  "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                  "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                  You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Douchetroyed
                    "Enzo, I see that you replied parasitic oscillations. Is that a hypothesis? Or is that your amazing metal band I should check out?"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Geez Chuck, now it looks like you are mad at Bob.
                      Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No, I love Bob. If he were here I 'd give him a big man hug.

                        It's like when your walking along and a bee gets caught in your draft. No one across the street see's the bee, they just see you flip out waving your hands and ducking around. 'Did you see that, that guy just snapped over there!'
                        "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                        "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                        "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                        You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No offense taken, of course! Telling the truth, when I saw that jerk's post I, too, felt the need to ask tboy to delete it, but Chuck was fast and Steve even faster....ZZZAP!

                          While I'm at it, allow me to hug you all, even if only "virtually", and to wish you all and your loved ones a truly Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year!.

                          This has been a very difficult year for me (I won't bore you with the details), so it's difficult for me to get into the right mood, but I'm happy and honored to be allowed to share this slice of cyberspace with you all!

                          Cheers

                          Bob
                          Hoc unum scio: me nihil scire.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Here here

                            Pie and eggnog (heavy on the nog please) makes the season bright.
                            "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                            "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                            "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                            You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Chuck H View Post
                              Here here

                              Pie and eggnog (heavy on the nog please) makes the season bright.

                              No, thanks, my cholesterol and triglycerides level is screaming for vengeance already!

                              Cheers

                              Bob
                              Hoc unum scio: me nihil scire.

                              Comment

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