Celestion, China or England made?

[Slobrain]

Hey Fellas,
I wanted to ask why most folks seem not to like the celestion G12M-70 speaker. I was told this is the exact speaker designed for the Marshall JCM800amp.

I see crate used to install these speakers in lots of their older model amps.

I like the tone of these but some sneer at the mention of the G12M-70?

SLO

[steve]

I dunno. I have a pair in 1x12" cabs, and I think they sound great. I had a pair of G12T-75s that were scouped in the mids and had a harsh grating high end, I didn't like them. I've never liked the Vintage 30s when I've heard them, too muddy sounding to me.

The G12M-70s sound more neutral to me, and sound pretty good clean. But they still retain the Celestion character, IMHO.

I like 'em

steve

Hey Fellas,
I wanted to ask why most folks seem not to like the celestion G12M-70 speaker. I was told this is the exact speaker designed for the Marshall JCM800amp.

I see crate used to install these speakers in lots of their older model amps.

I like the tone of these but some sneer at the mention of the G12M-70?

SLO

[Slobrain]

I guess most guys don't know to use a marshall 4x12 loaded with the GM-70's to get that correct marshall sound of the 80's using the JCM800. Think AC/CD with a slight bit more gain.

Most wind up using the GT-75's in a 4x12 cab and then all of a sudden the JCM800 sounds harsh and thin with no balls.

Maybe someone with the correct head and cab can tell their feelings on this subject. I too tried using a JCM800 with the wrong cab back in the early 90's and it just doesn't get the MARSHALL sound I thought it should. I sold off the JCM800 not knowing the GM12-70 maybe would have gotten me where I thought the sound should have been.

In 95 I bought a used Marshall JCM800 2x12 combo with the 65 watters and that amps sounded like crap, no joke, I sold it quick. Marshall should never had built a combo and then put in the 65 watters but thats my opinion
bad sounding amp.

SLO

[AdmiralB]

Celestion didn't make any guitar speakers in China until 2002. From then on, they've been made in both countries.

To tell where a given speaker was made:

If the frame code is ink-stamped on the chassis, it's pre-2002 and is UK.

In 2002 they went to the paper labels on the magnet edge. If the label says "IPSWICH ENGLAND" it's UK. If instead it simply has the number "50" it's China.

Having said all that, Celestion has been OWNED by a Chinese company for quite a long time, so you can infer that all their speakers have had some Chinese connection for ages.

[bob p]

i can't spell IPSWITCH.

[Slobrain]

Celestion didn't make any guitar speakers in China until 2002. From then on, they've been made in both countries.

To tell where a given speaker was made:

If the frame code is ink-stamped on the chassis, it's pre-2002 and is UK.

In 2002 they went to the paper labels on the magnet edge. If the label says "IPSWICH ENGLAND" it's UK. If instead it simply has the number "50" it's China.

Having said all that, Celestion has been OWNED by a Chinese company for quite a long time, so you can infer that all their speakers have had some Chinese connection for ages.

Thanks for that info AdmiralB,

I picked up a Randall 4x12 at a pawn a few weeks back and it's loaded with the celestion vint 30's and has the (Ipswich England) tags so if I decide to sell this cab or speakers I can always say, the speakers are UK made

I know the China and UK sound the same from Bobs testing and thats cool, but these folks on Ebay are just crazy about having to get the UK made celestions. I seen a celest-Vin30 china made sell for much less on Ebay than one that was posted as UK made. kinda funny in a way.

SLO

[tubeswell]

I thought they still made a line of stuff in Ipswich branded "Heritage", that 'sells' for about 30-40% more than their Chinese made stuff.

I have also heard that Duncan Boniface (who used to design Celestion Speakers) now designs a line called 'Alphatone' using much the same parts that come from the Celestion plant and sells these for a mere fraction of the price (the Alphatones are about NZ$85 compared to NZ$189 for Chinese Celestions, and NZ$360 for Ipswich ones), that they slap in some no-namer brand called Johnson amps. Alphatone speakers are s'posed to be quite good sounding according to one local tech here in NZ - Anybody know anything about this?

[Zoe_N_Iain]

I thought they still made a line of stuff in Ipswich branded "Heritage", that 'sells' for about 30-40% more than their Chinese made stuff.

I have also heard that Duncan Boniface (who used to design Celestion Speakers) now designs a line called 'Alphatone' using much the same parts that come from the Celestion plant and sells these for a mere fraction of the price (the Alphatones are about NZ$85 compared to NZ$189 for Chinese Celestions, and NZ$360 for Ipswich ones), that they slap in some no-namer brand called Johnson amps. Alphatone speakers are s'posed to be quite good sounding according to one local tech here in NZ - Anybody know anything about this?

My 4x12 has 3 Alphatone 1250s and a McKenzie 12/50 in it and sounds really good.

I can't state this as gospel, but I was told by a guy at the Carlsbro factory that the 1250 is the same magnet and voice coil as used in the Reverend 1250 (which apparently have a good reputation as an 'upgrade' blues/rock driver), with a Celestion cone. The speakers certainly sound like Celestions, so I'm inclined to believe that to be the case.

My mate Brian has a whole bunch of Alphatones he grabbed at a warehouse clearance, actually. He's sold some on Ebay and reckons to have had very complementary feedback from people who bought them. So they're definitely worth a try if the price is right. I'm certainly happy with them, though were someone to offer to swap them for Celestion Blues....

[Slobrain]

Hey fellas,
I wanted to ask what the hemp cone is supposed to be in sound? I seen a celestion V-30 on ebay that was reconed to a hemp cone and it was getting some hi bidding for the speaker

Regarding the Alphatone, here is one I found on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Alphatone-PA...QQcmdZViewItem

What is the sound of this speaker in comparison to say celestion?

Thanks

SLO

[tubeswell]

Well I'm trying to get a 16 Ohm 12" 50W one to try it out, but the local shop only has 8 Ohm ones and I've had an order in for months, so if it ever gets here I can appriase it and post a tone sample. According to all reports I have heard, they're s'posed to be great value for money.

[Gregg]

Below is a recently bought V30. There's no need to guess. The label says it all:

[ROKZOMBIE]

Thanks for that info AdmiralB,

I picked up a Randall 4x12 at a pawn a few weeks back and it's loaded with the celestion vint 30's and has the (Ipswich England) tags so if I decide to sell this cab or speakers I can always say, the speakers are UK made

I know the China and UK sound the same from Bobs testing and thats cool, but these folks on Ebay are just crazy about having to get the UK made celestions. I seen a celest-Vin30 china made sell for much less on Ebay than one that was posted as UK made. kinda funny in a way.

SLO

what if it has the white sticker with 50 on it and the label says its uk made then what???

[Chris - CMW amps]

Afaik, regarding the Celestion GUITARspeakers:

The Alnico's and the Heritages are made in the UK, others in China.

[oc disorder]

I saved this quote ages ago from a forum ..Unfortunatly I don't know by whom
or where ..but it seems to endorse the comments already written

The first speakers made in the Far East were the PG8A-15, maybe 6 years back. Then a few ranges were made over there that had not been made in England (Truvox PA drivers, 'Red label' guitar speakers), and then the wholesale movement started about 2002. When I left in early 2003 almost all production had moved to China, and then late 03/early 04 Celestion moved to the new factory, which just doesn't have the capacity to fill the order book. It is possible to tell the difference, as the Chinese built speakers have a white paper label on the magnet edge that has '50' in the corner.
I'd say from 04 on almost all Celestion guitar speakers have been made in China. I think the Alnicos and the neodymiums remained UK built however.

Many of the machines moved from the UK to China (some of them were smuggled over the border, as the Chinese don't like importing used production machinery for some reason) and myself and other guys from design and production Engineering spent weeks at the factory setting up the machines and training the operators. A lot of time and effort went into minimising environmental differences too (South China is pretty warm and humid compared to Ipswich !)
I'd say any initial tonal differences would be gone after a years use, but I'm sure we will see UK made prices going up over the next few years. I should have stockpiled them while I had the chance !

They must be doing something right..!