What to do when playing in countries with no ground installation?

[truthseeker57]

Mr Fahey, I just put together an anti-surge extension with both sides of the circuit going into a differential then just the + out through a 'termico' - would that be a thermal protection circuit? - then I also connected the ground from the extension to a 3 pin plug, so that where there actually is a ground connection with a ground pin there will hopefully be a ground connection for anything hooked up to this little rig.....then I made the cable for the external ground connection from slightly thicker cable than you recommended, connected one end to a chassis mount point on the amplifier, then the other end via a large alligator clip to the water tap in the kitchen of our flat. The result - no more hum (apart from what gets picked up from the refridgerator) !!!!!!!!! And my guitar strings no longer tickle my finger and palms, and the guitar's controls also do not cause popping when touched - sheer genius on your part Sir, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Aside from that, I will let you know how this rig fares on the actual gig this weekend. I plan to incorporate this into a pedal board I am designing - this would have made my life so much simpler had I had this setup whilst still in Spain

Now the sad part - when I tried to explain the importance of this setup to our bandleader/keyboard player - our singer chimed in and started to bemoan the number of times he had got a belt from a microphone on stage, and the bandleader just ignored both of us....my intention is to plug everyone's gear into this rig, but when I go home I need it there, for the sake of 300 Bv - about $47US, he is willing to put his own and everyone else's life at risk because he says he has 'never heard of anyone dying in Bolivia from an electric shock on stage or in a club during a performance...' what a stupid and ignorant attitude! And we are talking about a worship leader with full responsability for anything that goes amiss...

I wish I could provide him with some written statistical information that could show him how incredibly misinformed he and the other musicians who trust their lives to fate whenever they plug their instruments into the mains supply with no ground are. Any such information, especially in Spanish please send me the links or files or whatever - a Youtube link might be the best and most potent delivery of my point however....I don't have time to search right now.

David

[J M Fahey]

Ok, glad it worked well for you.
Part by part:
1) The "Protector diferencial" is the heart of your system; the "térmica" is just a thermal fuse with the advantage that if tripped, can be reset by raising the little lever, nothing else.
In fact it probably is redundant because a good "protector diferencial" should also have a built-in "térmica", but it doesn't hurt either, so leave it.
I think the "diferencial" should cut both wires, just in case you play in one of the funky "double live" lines.
Tell me the model and trademark, so I search for it.
Being in Bolivia it must be either Argentine, Brazilian or Chinese made.
If it states some site in the manual or body or box, post it to save time.
If Argentine it must be registered and comply with our quite strict norms, which follow the DIN ones.
If you used a thicker wire, better !! I had suggested the minimum ones.
*** Remember to use the COLD water tap****, even better the lead tube that feeds it or any lead tube in the apartment/flat because they come underground from the street, besides any (certain) leak in its path provides excellent humid earth.; the hot water one may come from a cement or fiberglass tank over the roof, a "dry" and not so good earth connection.
Check that water does not come through plastic tubes, very popular and cheap now.
2) Some links:
a) Lanzaron una campaña de seguridad para productos eléctricos y electrónicos - GENTE-BA states:
"En Argentina, los accidentes de origen eléctrico son la segunda causa de muerteluego de los de tránsito y suman cerca de 1.500 casos por año." = "Official data: 1500 electrical deaths a year, only second cause of death after traffic accidents"
b) CADIEEL states = "las estadísticas de la Superintendencia de Bomberos de la Policía Federal revelan que cuatro de cada diez siniestros tienen su origen en una falla de la instalación eléctrica" = "official data from Argentine Federal Police Firemen : 4 out of 10 fires come from electrical causes"
c) I know of two dead artists, a Rock singer who became an Evangelical one, and a Tango/Folkloric singer.
Also my client, Felipe Matthews, the bass player for Amelita Baltar, Piazzolla's tango singer, almost died when he muted his bass strings with his left hand, and grabbed her SM58 mike with the right one.
He was playing a rental Peavey amp, with the death cap turned to one phase, and the PA system (also Peavey) was plugged with the other phase.
Somebody saw his contortions/twitching on stage, and pulled the mike by the cord, breaking contact.
d) If you have some Rock players there, tell them you are being coached by Fahey, who made the amplifiers for La Renga, Rata Blanca, Almafuerte, Charly García, León Giecco, and thousands more.
Some might even have visited my shop in Buenos Aires.
La Torre (Patricia Sosa) also played Bolivia for ages with my amplification, as well as professional musicians with Mercedes Sosa, Valeria Lynch, Tormenta, Sandro,
Sergio Denis, Johnny Allon, etc.
Well, that's about it.
Good luck and don't drink too much Paceña.
PS: How are you managing the altitude and lack of oxygen?

[Gibsonman63]

Another low-tech trick for avoiding microphone shocks is to put one of those foam windscreens on it. It works well when you are playing guitar at the same time and getting shocked on the lips. If the singer is holding the microphone, he may have to wrap in in electrical tape and wear insulated shoes as well, like we used to do here with old refridgerator handles.

[truthseeker57]

Ok, glad it worked well for you.
Part by part:
1) The "Protector diferencial" is the heart of your system; the "térmica" is just a thermal fuse with the advantage that if tripped, can be reset by raising the little lever, nothing else.
In fact it probably is redundant because a good "protector diferencial" should also have a built-in "térmica", but it doesn't hurt either, so leave it.
I think the "diferencial" should cut both wires, just in case you play in one of the funky "double live" lines.
Tell me the model and trademark, so I search for it.
Being in Bolivia it must be either Argentine, Brazilian or Chinese made.
If it states some site in the manual or body or box, post it to save time.
If Argentine it must be registered and comply with our quite strict norms, which follow the DIN ones.
If you used a thicker wire, better !! I had suggested the minimum ones.
*** Remember to use the COLD water tap****, even better the lead tube that feeds it or any lead tube in the apartment/flat because they come underground from the street, besides any (certain) leak in its path provides excellent humid earth.; the hot water one may come from a cement or fiberglass tank over the roof, a "dry" and not so good earth connection.
Check that water does not come through plastic tubes, very popular and cheap now.
2) Some links:
a) Lanzaron una campaña de seguridad para productos eléctricos y electrónicos - GENTE-BA states:
"En Argentina, los accidentes de origen eléctrico son la segunda causa de muerteluego de los de tránsito y suman cerca de 1.500 casos por año." = "Official data: 1500 electrical deaths a year, only second cause of death after traffic accidents"
b) CADIEEL states = "las estadísticas de la Superintendencia de Bomberos de la Policía Federal revelan que cuatro de cada diez siniestros tienen su origen en una falla de la instalación eléctrica" = "official data from Argentine Federal Police Firemen : 4 out of 10 fires come from electrical causes"
c) I know of two dead artists, a Rock singer who became an Evangelical one, and a Tango/Folkloric singer.
Also my client, Felipe Matthews, the bass player for Amelita Baltar, Piazzolla's tango singer, almost died when he muted his bass strings with his left hand, and grabbed her SM58 mike with the right one.
He was playing a rental Peavey amp, with the death cap turned to one phase, and the PA system (also Peavey) was plugged with the other phase.
Somebody saw his contortions/twitching on stage, and pulled the mike by the cord, breaking contact.
d) If you have some Rock players there, tell them you are being coached by Fahey, who made the amplifiers for La Renga, Rata Blanca, Almafuerte, Charly García, León Giecco, and thousands more.
Some might even have visited my shop in Buenos Aires.
La Torre (Patricia Sosa) also played Bolivia for ages with my amplification, as well as professional musicians with Mercedes Sosa, Valeria Lynch, Tormenta, Sandro,
Sergio Denis, Johnny Allon, etc.
Well, that's about it.
Good luck and don't drink too much Paceña.
PS: How are you managing the altitude and lack of oxygen?

Hi, thank you again for your sharing your skills and knowhow here - I will answer your questions and address the points you make one by one:

1. the differential is indeed from Argentina, the make is SICA, and it is labeled 'Interruptor Diferencial de 2 Polos', the other label is: IEC 89008-2-1, but there was no box or packeting, as I purchased it from an iron-monger - Ferretería.

2. I have the ground connected to the cold water tap in the kitchen of my flat, and the results are remarkably good. I will probably be able to asess the quality of the earth at the gig from the noise and hum produced in the amplifier, plus obviously from the sensation from the guitar strings and popping produced from the controls etc. If all that is remedied, then I will have found a good ground point, hopefully.

3. Thank you for the links, hope they will enable me to convince our band leader to take the matter considerably more seriously, not only on gigs, but in his school and in the church, where the risk is probably far greater for anyone who happens to touch something live and become ground for the current...

4. I only know one rock player here, and you probably already know each other, his name is Carlos Valdivia Suarez, and is the owner of la Casa del Músico in Santa Cruz de la Sierra en Calle Beni. I believe he plays in a well known group, but I don't move in those circles, I'm more into jazz and fusion personally.

5. I prefer wine, I'm really not much into beer these days....

6. Altitude is no problem here in Santa Cruz, only the high humidity and heat plus the mosquitos - I just got a good dose of dengue, and needed two litres of serum before the doctors could bring my body hydration to anything near normal, it is really a terrible infection, but thank God the worst is over now.

7. I sent you a message which it looks as though you did not receive - basically I am interested in hearing more about your amplification, and I was also asking whether you also work with pedal based effects. If you have a website to point me to I would really like to hear more please. Speak soon.....perhaps we could chat on Skype? My nick is truthseeker57

Perhaps we could arrange to meet up at some point, I have to cross the border before the end of the month in order to extend my stay here for a further 90 days, and it is possible that I could come to Buenos Aires if I can find somewhere affordable for myself and my wife to stay. We have family in Salta, but I believe that is pretty far away from Buenos Aires, but it would be a start anyway.

[J M Fahey]

Hi Truthseeker.
I did answer your PM here, it took 3 small "pages" (same as yours) because apparently they are size-limited. Check them. If I can retrieve them I'll resend, although I seem to remember that outgoing ones are not saved automatically.
1) I guess you got one of these.

They are good. The IEC number is the international security norm they comply with.
The technical manual is:
http://www.sicaelec.com/pdf/Productos/Folletos/945.pdf
I am surprised to see that they do not include a thermal interruptor; that's why they sold you an extra one.
*Hope* it's all properly mounted in some kind of insulating or normalized box.
2)

I will probably be able to asess the quality of the earth at the gig from the noise and hum produced in the amplifier, plus obviously from the sensation from the guitar strings and popping produced from the controls etc.

No you are not.
Judging the safety of an electrical apparatus by licking its chassis while standing barefoot on a salt water pool is no longer "state of the art".
Just use your trusty neon screwdriver.
Kids !!, repeat with me!! : No - light - no - danger !!!
7) If you backpack/travel light we have a lot of affordable and popular hostels, also similar priced downtown hotels, close to shopping/theater/nightlife/museum areas , etc.
I'll check some links for you.
Bus tickets are affordable too, or try your luck, often Salta/Buenos Aires flights cost less than bus tickets because of promotions.
Check regularly "despegar.com.ar" , both Salta/Bs As and Santa Cruz/Bs As. You might be surprised.
If you come, you're welcome, just write a week before .
Good luck and enjoy Bolivia.
PS: you can mail me at: juanmanuelfahey @ gmail . com (pull spaces)

[GainFreak]

Many countries in Europe have 2 prong AC line. One is hot, the other is "zero", no dedicated ground and that is so from a long time and is a national standard as well. What they do is connect in all AC outlets the ground pin (middle) to the "zero". 3 phase AC outlets are entirely different story and are run separately from the main AC line.