mid-50's P90 rewind

[murrayatuptown]

Hi:

I have an open mid-50's black bakelite cover dog-ear P90...open as in open continuity.

I have already taken the magnets off (they were not bonded with any adhesive), and the coil is not potted, so I figured no harm in unwinding it myself to count the turns and observe anything interesting, even if there isn't anything to discover beyond the obvious.

It occurred to me this wheel has already been invented and reinvented, so maybe I should just ask...does someone already know the approx. # turns, and gauge...hey, even what kind of insulation/thickness was popular then, and how does one determine the correct magnet orientation again (flat Alnico-looking things, very roughly 1" x 3").

Thanks

Murray

[mondo]

Just a guess on this old P90 but 10000 turns of 42 awg Plain Enamel sounds about right. The south poles of the magnets face inwards which makes a heart shaped EMF and the tops of the pole screws will be a south pole. If it works just leave it as is. If it's buggered then a rewind may be needed.

[murrayatuptown]

It's definitely open. I looked at the magnet wire-hookup wire joint that is at the outside of the winding under a microscope and also have electrical continuity between the outside black wire and the magnet wire side of the solder joint, but no continuity to the other black wire. That's why I'm contemplating rewinding...it doesn't work at all.

Thank you


Murray

[mondo]

Have fun with it. I personally wouldn't be too hung up on being Vintage Correct unless you have the old style of wire on hand. I think the winding technique is more crucial to the particular tone than the coating on the wire. Just my 2 bits FWIW. Also, I think that some of the older pickups were wound with less DCR and sound better that way. Too much wire will darken the tone. If you want more snarl then turn up the amplifier. I find a lot of pickups are overwound and wind up losing some of their flavour through inductance/capacitance. Especially neck pickups!

[big_teee]

Have fun with it. I personally wouldn't be too hung up on being Vintage Correct unless you have the old style of wire on hand. I think the winding technique is more crucial to the particular tone than the coating on the wire. Just my 2 bits FWIW. Also, I think that some of the older pickups were wound with less DCR and sound better that way. Too much wire will darken the tone. If you want more snarl then turn up the amplifier. I find a lot of pickups are overwound and wind up losing some of their flavour through inductance/capacitance. Especially neck pickups!

I agree with Mondo.
IMO I would do the same as We do In Humbuckers.
Less for the neck, and more for the bridge.
I just read this.
Early 50s P-90s.
Output: Neck 7.25k, Bridge 7.5k
Mid 60's P-90s
Output: Neck 8.2k, Bridge 8.9k
That will give you some Idea what you may want to achieve on your wind.
Good Luck,
Terry

[mondo]

I pulled apart a Hilotron made by TV Jones that I had in the neck of my Tele thinline copy to see why it was so fat and murky sounding. I always associated the toaster sound with bright, Jangly tones like the Jam etc. and figured that a Hilotron would be a great sounding neck pup for a semi hollow guitar. The thing is anything but jangly as there is no high end to it at all. I tested it at 4.3kilohms which seems like a very low ammount of DCR but I read that the vintage Gretsch Hilos were wound considerably less, especially for the neck. The cat who built the guitar said that TV Jones made the pickup himself for this guitar. I figure he told him to wind it hot because I play very loud, aggressive rock'n'roll. I'm going to peel off some wire and see if I can get it closer to 3.7 kilohms to brighten it up. I don't worry about my pickups being "low output". if I want more oomph then I use the volume knob. I guess I could try different pots too but the ones in the guitar are not junk.

[David Schwab]

I pulled apart a Hilotron made by TV Jones that I had in the neck of my Tele thinline copy to see why it was so fat and murky sounding. I always associated the toaster sound with bright, Jangly tones like the Jam etc. and figured that a Hilotron would be a great sounding neck pup for a semi hollow guitar. The thing is anything but jangly as there is no high end to it at all. I tested it at 4.3kilohms which seems like a very low ammount of DCR but I read that the vintage Gretsch Hilos were wound considerably less, especially for the neck. The cat who built the guitar said that TV Jones made the pickup himself for this guitar. I figure he told him to wind it hot because I play very loud, aggressive rock'n'roll. I'm going to peel off some wire and see if I can get it closer to 3.7 kilohms to brighten it up. I don't worry about my pickups being "low output". if I want more oomph then I use the volume knob. I guess I could try different pots too but the ones in the guitar are not junk.

4.3K should be very bright. Are you sure the guitar doesn't have a cap wired to the neck pickup to roll off the highs? That was one of the settings on the Teles with the 4 way switch.

Try wiring the pickup right to the jack and see how it sounds.