New to the forum: Ready to build a tweed deluxe from a kit

[No457 Snowy]

dspree,

I ended up building two of the Tube Depot kits, it builds into a fantastic sounding amp I think you'll be surprised when you finish. Don't worry about the circuit board it's very well designed and high quality, military spec tough, I found it to be nothing like the circuit boards in my store bought "reissue amps". I decided to document my two builds in a diary, here are links to both builds, I hope there is something in there that you find useful.

My first build diary

My second build diary


Good luck with the build, I'm sure you will love it.

Cheers,

Snowy

[d. spree]

dspree,

I ended up building two of the Tube Depot kits, it builds into a fantastic sounding amp I think you'll be surprised when you finish. Don't worry about the circuit board it's very well designed and high quality, military spec tough, I found it to be nothing like the circuit boards in my store bought "reissue amps". I decided to document my two builds in a diary, here are links to both builds, I hope there is something in there that you find useful.

My first build diary

My second build diary


Good luck with the build, I'm sure you will love it.

Cheers,

Snowy

Yes, your two diaries where what inspired me to do the tubedepot kit as an initial build, they have been fantastic help and with great photographs so thanks!!! I do have a question - on your second build you substituted the 4 coupling capacitors with orange drops - the original specs are for 4 .1uF/630 volt caps but the nearest orange drops i found (and ordered) at Tubedepot are .1uf / 600 volts. Is this correct- what were the specs on the orange drops you used. I am also substituting an orange drop cap for the fifth coupling capacitor (.022uf/630 volts) but found an orange drop with the exact same specs. I have an email out to Rob at Tubedepot but haven't heard yet, so I would appreciate knowing what you did.Also, despite the advice given by Bruce (from Mission Amps) to save my money and not oredr a mission tweed deluxe I am going to as soon as I sucessfully play the current build. I ultimately love the Mission noard as it is a beautiful thing to behold and clsoest to the original Leo amps, so I am inverets in doing this build. Unless I blow up my current build that is.

Again thanks Snowy for two amazing diaries - they are detailed and high quality and really helpful.

[d. spree]

Save your money... when fat again, from this build move right to a Princeton Reverb to Deluxe Reverb amp. Then you'll have three of the best bang for the buck amps out there!!

Bruce appreciate the advice BUT I really want to build the Mission tweed deluxe and as soon as I finsih the current build I will strat. I think the current build has given me the basic confidence - I now have a better understanding of the way the thing works - helped by reading a the Tube Amplifier Handbook (most of which is beyond me!). I will ship my first build out to the friend who recently completed a beautiful archtop for me as a 60th birthday gift - all hand carved and incredible to play (why want a great amp). He will be very suprised. Meanwhile I will be emailing you for help once I nbegin the build. What is the approxinate time from order to devilery (chassis kit only)?

[Bruce / Mission Amps]

Not sure when I will be shipping the 5E3 kits.... I have all the supporting parts but the new chrome chassis' are at my silk screener's shop... since last Friday.
They are supposed to have them inked and baked (baking sets the ink on the chrome) by Thursday.... so I'm hoping I'll be able to start packing again by the weekend.
This was a really long delay this time... the metal finishing shop that deburs and mirror polishes my raw chassis before chrome plating, usually takes about about 1 1/2 weeks, but for some dumb ass reason and one excuse after another, it ended up taking them 6 1/2 weeks!!!
Yup... running a business where you have to depend on others for work you can't do yourself... sucks!

[No457 Snowy]

Yes, your two diaries where what inspired me to do the tubedepot kit as an initial build, they have been fantastic help and with great photographs so thanks!!! I do have a question - on your second build you substituted the 4 coupling capacitors with orange drops - the original specs are for 4 .1uF/630 volt caps but the nearest orange drops i found (and ordered) at Tubedepot are .1uf / 600 volts. Is this correct- what were the specs on the orange drops you used. I am also substituting an orange drop cap for the fifth coupling capacitor (.022uf/630 volts) but found an orange drop with the exact same specs. I have an email out to Rob at Tubedepot but haven't heard yet, so I would appreciate knowing what you did.Also, despite the advice given by Bruce (from Mission Amps) to save my money and not oredr a mission tweed deluxe I am going to as soon as I sucessfully play the current build. I ultimately love the Mission noard as it is a beautiful thing to behold and clsoest to the original Leo amps, so I am inverets in doing this build. Unless I blow up my current build that is.

Again thanks Snowy for two amazing diaries - they are detailed and high quality and really helpful.

The Orange Drops I used were the same as the ones you have ordered .1uf / 600v (715P) and .022uf / 630v (715P). Here's a pic of mine with the Filter caps I used.



I would also love to tackle one of the Mission kits, I've learn't a lot from building and discussing these two amps, I think another kit is in my future I find it to be very addictive, I'm not sure if that's "normal" behaviour, but that's how it is for me.

Snowy

[d. spree]

The Orange Drops I used were the same as the ones you have ordered .1uf / 600v (715P) and .022uf / 630v (715P). Here's a pic of mine with the Filter caps I used.



I would also love to tackle one of the Mission kits, I've learn't a lot from building and discussing these two amps, I think another kit is in my future I find it to be very addictive, I'm not sure if that's "normal" behaviour, but that's how it is for me.

Snowy

I know how it feels - I am completing my TubeDepot build and already am set to order a mission tweed deluxe kit. Your diaries and the pictures are great and very high quality. I love the simple non-printed circuit board of the Mission and Trinity kits but am glad I did the tube depot kit has helped me understand the way the thing works and demystified it all (along with reading the guitar amp handbook). I do have a specific question for you - though you may not remember - Rob at Tube Depot is away on vacation for a couple of week so I can't ask him yet.

My question relates to the 12” red wire thatattaches to the middle terminal of the tone control and pin 2 of the V2 preamp tube. This all make sense as I understand this very classic design was used on many early fender amps. Problem is on the parts and wiring drawing tubedepot has this connected to the first volume control not the tone control. I am almost certain the drwawing is in error, can you confirm?

[No457 Snowy]

Hi dspree,

It runs from the middle terminal of the tone control under the board and the other end connects to pin 2 of V2 preamp tube, that's how I wired both my amps and they both work perfectly.

Here is one end of the Red wire on the middle terminal of the Tone control:


The other of the same Red wire attached to pin 2 of V2 (RHS in pic).


Here's the part of the schematic showing this wire (highlighted in Yellow)


Snowy

[d. spree]

Hi dspree,

It runs from the middle terminal of the tone control under the board and the other end connects to pin 2 of V2 preamp tube, that's how I wired both my amps and they both work perfectly.

Here is one end of the Red wire on the middle terminal of the Tone control:


The other of the same Red wire attached to pin 2 of V2 (RHS in pic).


Here's the part of the schematic showing this wire (highlighted in Yellow)


Snowy

Thanks Snowy - I just wanted a double check and Rob at TubeDepot is away on vacation. When you upgraded the coupling caps to the orange drops did you install a .022 ufd in the C7 position along with the four .1ufd caps or did you switch it for a .01 value. In the directions Rob says that the .022 ufd cap can sound bassy and that he usualy makes this switch at C& as this has a major impact in shaping the overall tone. I wonder about impact on tone (he also says you can install a .0047 ufd cap here). I am tempted to go with the .01ufd cap here.

Given that the board is designed for less bulky (and less high quality) coupling capacitors the upgrade to orange drops does make it crowded and harder to repair or replace components in the future - many of the resistors are effectively concealed by the large orange drops so I don't want to test it out with different value caps in this position. This is one downside of the upgrade, but having soldered the resistors in place I will start to work on all the caps tonight with luck. One of the advantages of the Mission and Trinity boards is that they are much more friendly when it comes to replacing components, which I think is a real plus. Meanwhile I am glad to be following your build as it demystifies the whole process. Cabinet just arrived today, I AM STILL waiting for The Weber blue dog speaker and then I'm all set to get the whole thing together.

One other question I have is about wiring the (twisted green wire) filaments. Did you mafk each end of one wire so that they were routed from pin 2 to pin two on the nest tube, from pin 7 to pin 7 etc, or does this not matter? There's no sense from the directions that this should be done. How did you appoach it?

[d. spree]

Probably the biggest slow down I encounter with novice kit builders is the simple aspect of logistics. Such as, where to start so that when you get *here*... you don't have to go back to the beginning and remove what you've already done because it's now in the way!!
A good example of that is, not to install the very easily mountable transformers... that is before you have installed, and then wired up the tube sockets.
Most tweed amp builders will agree that the filament string can be a pain in the butt and you will discover what the term, "sausage fingers" means.
With the transformers mounted, there is nothing quite like trying to shlep the awkwardly balanced chassis around, while installing sockets and then wiring the filament string.
I have had 12-14 year, old budding guitar amp gurus, put the darn thing together over a weekend and be playing the amp late Sunday afternoon... yet I have full grown adults want to shoot themselves and me too! ha ha

Hey Bruce - I am making good progress and its helped me get comfortable with another build with a traditional board. In doing so realized one of the major advantages of the Mission board over a printed board - much easier to replace components in teh future and try tweaks and adjustments. The printed circuit board is tighter and more crowded and with an upgrade to orange drops instead of the stock coupling capacitors it will be difficult to see the resistors and to replace them. Also the small eyelets on teh rpinted board are less robust and will deteriorate after a swap or two in the future. The big eylet traditional boards like the Mission or Trinity are easier to work with and appear much more sturdy for future component upgrades and swaps.

[No457 Snowy]

D.spree, the twisted Green Filament wiring on pins 2 and 7 runs AC voltage (6.3 volts AC) so there's no "polarity" as such it you don't have to worry about keeping track of the individual wires in the twist.

I went with a .022 ufd cap for the C7 position in both my amps (Orange Drop version in the second one), it sounds perfect to me when using a Strat or Tele, ie, it is not too Bassy. I'd suggest you try it in stock form first, I thought about changing it's value on my second build but decided the voicing of the first build was perfect for my guitars so again I stayed with .022 ufd. I run an Eminence Texas Heat speaker in both my amps and it sounds to my ears to be a great match for the amp, it can handle all the Bass this amp can dish out without any sign of "farting out" and is also very sensitive to all the nuances the amp is capable of producing, a very good US made speaker in my opinion. There is a lot of useable range on the Tone control. Maybe if you were to use a Humbucker equipped guitar you might consider a cap change for C7 to remove some Bass.

The option to swap components around is always a possibility, but seriously, in a band situation, where this amp can really shine, I question whether certain changes would even be heard and I think the amp builds into a real nice tone machine with the stock components. I can honestly say after building and now playing two different versions of this same amp, don't think the Orange Drop caps in my second amp made that amp any "better" sounding. Likewise, the F&T caps in the second amp don't make me feel any more secure about the reliability of that amp compared to the Illinois caps in the first amp, it was nice to use some different components but I guess time will tell. In fact the first amp with the stock components is the one I usually grab when I take just one amp with me, it sounds fantastic.

Just my 2 cents.

Snowy

[d. spree]

D.spree, the twisted Green Filament wiring on pins 2 and 7 runs AC voltage (6.3 volts AC) so there's no "polarity" as such it you don't have to worry about keeping track of the individual wires in the twist.

I went with a .022 ufd cap for the C7 position in both my amps (Orange Drop version in the second one), it sounds perfect to me when using a Strat or Tele, ie, it is not too Bassy. I'd suggest you try it in stock form first, I thought about changing it's value on my second build but decided the voicing of the first build was perfect for my guitars so again I stayed with .022 ufd. I run an Eminence Texas Heat speaker in both my amps and it sounds to my ears to be a great match for the amp, it can handle all the Bass this amp can dish out without any sign of "farting out" and is also very sensitive to all the nuances the amp is capable of producing, a very good US made speaker in my opinion. There is a lot of useable range on the Tone control. Maybe if you were to use a Humbucker equipped guitar you might consider a cap change for C7 to remove some Bass.

The option to swap components around is always a possibility, but seriously, in a band situation, where this amp can really shine, I question whether certain changes would even be heard and I think the amp builds into a real nice tone machine with the stock components. I can honestly say after building and now playing two different versions of this same amp, don't think the Orange Drop caps in my second amp made that amp any "better" sounding. Likewise, the F&T caps in the second amp don't make me feel any more secure about the reliability of that amp compared to the Illinois caps in the first amp, it was nice to use some different components but I guess time will tell. In fact the first amp with the stock components is the one I usually grab when I take just one amp with me, it sounds fantastic.

Just my 2 cents.

Snowy

I thought 2 cents had been eliminated in Oz? Snowy thanks. I ended up soldering the board components and the wires off the baord last night. I ended up using the orange drop .022 ufd dap after reading your earlier post comparing your first and second build - with teh second build sounding "brighter." I decided not to brighten it up even further as I want sojme warmth and fullness in my tones - always after that 50s and early 60s blues tone - I do play the strat for some pieces but my go to guitars for most pieces alternate between a Gretsch 5120 hollow doy with humbuckers and a beautiful newly built carved archtop with a 17" lower bout and a single armstrong pickup floating (attached to fretboard). Nevertheless I decided to stick with the 022ufd cap. I did do a practice build of a TubeDepot standard baord s I could practice and iron out any kinks - so I do have two baords one standard and one with teh same upgrades as your second build. (THe practice cost about $35 and it seemed worthwhile. Hardest time I has was fitting the tinned wires into the board grommets which are quite small. Second time aaround I learned to strip them very little as the tinning worked better on a very short lead.

Otherwise I am cokking - board is in but not wired up to tubes and sockets etc. That's for tonight and tomorrow moarning. The cabinet arrived yesterday and the speaker today so I was able to strip the cabinet of its hardware and take off the boards and speaker grill and cloth and give it a first coat of nitro spray this morning before leaving for work. My cabinet had been given a coat of clear spray inside and out - tweed and wood surfaces both. I use aerosol nitro and still found it hard to get a consistently smooth look.

FYI I am installing a Weber Blue Dog Alnico 50 watt speaker in this build. Will let you know how t works.

One last question - when you did the dim bulb test is that with all tubes etc in - or is it before the list of recommended tests as the tubes are gradually added?

Meanwhile thanks for you help. I am taking pictures and will post a build diary - hopefull starting this weekend after I download the first shoots. The soldering and pics won't be as perfect as yours however. You are a tough act to follow. If teh amp doesn't blow up and passes all tests I will order the Mission kit next. Am superstitious about ordering it before I make sure this one works.

[No457 Snowy]

For the Dim-Bulb tester, use it right at the very first power up before any tubes are fitted, in my second build diary, on page 7 about 12 posts down the page there is a description of how I used it.

Snowy

[Topper]

Not sure when I will be shipping the 5E3 kits.... I have all the supporting parts but the new chrome chassis' are at my silk screener's shop... since last Friday.
They are supposed to have them inked and baked (baking sets the ink on the chrome) by Thursday.... so I'm hoping I'll be able to start packing again by the weekend.
This was a really long delay this time... the metal finishing shop that deburs and mirror polishes my raw chassis before chrome plating, usually takes about about 1 1/2 weeks, but for some dumb ass reason and one excuse after another, it ended up taking them 6 1/2 weeks!!!
Yup... running a business where you have to depend on others for work you can't do yourself... sucks!

Nevertheless, the Mission 5E3 chassis is a thing of beauty and well worth the wait! Also consider obtaining the chassis support bracket found on the Mission site. It removed an annoying cabinet rattle for me and makes the whole amp solid as a brick. It requires a little bit of drilling, however.

[d. spree]

Thanks everyone. I have finished the build and it passed the dim bulb tests but failed on the last test recommended by tubedepot. I have an email out to rob hull at tubedepot.

This is how it did on the tests -
It passed each step of the dim bulb tester test.

It lit up fine on regular start up without tubes – no smell.

With rectifier tube installed it started fine and at C12 (B+) showed about +480-490V (somewhat hot?) as the instruction materials says this should be +460 +/- 10 volts.

With the pre-amp tubes installed it correctly showed 1.5V at each of C3 and C6 (the first two 25 ufd/25 volt capacitors).

At lower lead of resistor R14 got a reading of +53 volts (below the proper +63 volts)

With output tubes installed an speaker connected and the amp warmed for 2 minutes the multimeter read +350V at C10 (the postive end of the last of the 25ufd /25 volt capacitors – not the +22v in the instructions – this dropped over time – after 2 minutes it had dropped to about 150V (I presume the multimeter leads are draining voltage to ground when I test?).

I checked all the connections – and checked the wiring on the output tubes etc, and can find nothing out of place.

I am stumped - waiting to hear from tube depot but would appreciate advice from anyone who has done this build and can suggest my next steps?

[d. spree]

Heard back from the tech - Rob Hull. He suggested some checks but also added that I should check "the voltage across the C10 capacitor individually by placing the red lead on the positive lead of the cap, and the black lead on the negative lead of the cap." I had thought this would short out the capacitor?