Heavy Formvar vs Plain Enamel

[Corcia]

I am about to build a new set of strat single coils with the aim to explore new tonal possibilities, I am still deciding to go with plain enamel or heavy formvar; i would like to follow the advise of BigTee and David Schwab and wind a set at 5.6k - 6.1k - and 6,7(8)k.
i know this is going to be a silly question: which tonal difference should i expect from the same set (alnico 5) wound with PE and with HFV.
i know that the biggest difference lies in the wire insulation thickness, but i would like (if possible) to have an idea of the tonal result i should expect.
correct me if i'm wrong, if the insulation thickness is smaller, I suppose i shall have a lower DC resistance at the same number of coils (coils are "smaller" > less wire > less DC resistance), correct?

[big_teee]

I am about to build a new set of strat single coils with the aim to explore new tonal possibilities, I am still deciding to go with plain enamel or heavy formvar; i would like to follow the advise of BigTee and David Schwab and wind a set at 5.6k - 6.1k - and 6,7(8)k.
i know this is going to be a silly question: which tonal difference should i expect from the same set (alnico 5) wound with PE and with HFV.
i know that the biggest difference lies in the wire insulation thickness, but i would like (if possible) to have an idea of the tonal result i should expect.
correct me if i'm wrong, if the insulation thickness is smaller, I suppose i shall have a lower DC resistance at the same number of coils (coils are "smaller" > less wire > less DC resistance), correct?

These are Strictly Opinions, I'll give you Mine!
If the Wire is same Resistance per Foot, then the Same Length of wire will be the same DCR.
With that said the HFV will make a bigger coil, the PE is smaller and it would make a smaller coil for the same Length of wire.
You can compare tones, the 50s and Early 60 Strats (Pre CBS) Used HFV, and Late 60s, and 70s (Post CBS) used PE.
I like both. In My Strat Single Coils Pickups I primarily use the HFV, I like the sound, I like the Wire, Its easier to Hand Wind.
It's larger, Harder to break, and it being clear Varnish it is Easier to See than the Dark Brown PE.
And, Don't forget that it is cheaper to buy.
As time goes on the PE is going to get to be Harder and Harder to find.
It will surely go up in price, because It's hardly Used by anyone except Pickup winders.
I Have 43 PE, and 42 PE, but Primarily reserve it for Vintage Rewinds.
Hope this helps, Heck if you got the Coin buy both, and see what You Like!
Terry

[Corcia]

Thanks Teee!
I've bought a bunch of wires in order to save money on the shipment, so I have 42PE, 42HFV, 42SPN and 43 single Formvar so i can choose and of course my intention is to experiment them all!
I've read various posts regarding the tonal difference between HFV and PE, the most frequent definitions i found were "fatter and brighter" for the HFV and "thinner and darker" for the PE, as per you experience do you agree with these definitions? (i have clear in mind that my perception might be totally different!)

[big_teee]

Thanks Teee!
I've bought a bunch of wires in order to save money on the shipment, so I have 42PE, 42HFV, 42SPN and 43 single Formvar so i can choose and of course my intention is to experiment them all!
I've read various posts regarding the tonal difference between HFV and PE, the most frequent definitions i found were "fatter and brighter" for the HFV and "thinner and darker" for the PE, as per you experience do you agree with this definitions? (i have clear in mind that my perception my be totally different!)

That's probably pretty correct.
The HFV will produce the 63 Strat Woody Tone, that I like.
If your winding for a Strat, don't forget the 250k Pots, and the .1uf Cap.
It is part of that tone.
T

[Corcia]

of course i will!!!
BTW what kind of cap do you suggest? ceramic, orange drop....or what?

[big_teee]

of course i will!!!
BTW what kind of cap do you suggest? ceramic, orange drop....or what?

I furnace a Cheap .1uf Disc Cap With Each set I sell, That's what Fender always used and they fit in the guitar nicely.
I think they sound good.
I Tell the Customer if He wants to experiment with the high Dollar Caps, have at it, but He can buy them, and put them in.
Good Luck,
B_T

[David Schwab]

i know this is going to be a silly question: which tonal difference should i expect from the same set (alnico 5) wound with PE and with HFV.
i know that the biggest difference lies in the wire insulation thickness, but i would like (if possible) to have an idea of the tonal result i should expect.
correct me if i'm wrong, if the insulation thickness is smaller, I suppose i shall have a lower DC resistance at the same number of coils (coils are "smaller" > less wire > less DC resistance), correct?

The heavy build wire has sort of a rounder-juicer tone. The thinner build wire is tighter and dryer sounding. I like the heavy build stuff for some neck pickups.

Also, if can be heavy build anything, it doesn't have to be formvar, but that's usually what you find. Single build formvar sounds just like single build poly, and heavy build formvar sounds like heavy build poly.

I don't use any PE so I can't comment on that, but those are the differences I hear between heavy and regular insulation builds with SPN and formvar.

You can get a similar tonal affect as heavy build by going to the next half wire gauge lower.

[Telemachos]

T..........You can get a similar tonal affect as heavy build by going to the next half wire gauge lower.

david, would that translate into using AWG 43,5 when initially intended to use AWG 43, or is it the other way round?

[big_teee]

david, would that translate into using AWG 43,5 when initially intended to use AWG 43, or is it the other way round?

On the half size effect?
I don't know where you would buy half sized wire without buying it on 100 pound spools.
We have had that discussion before.
So I would stick to the standard sizes, and use the single and double insulated wire.
Also this is an old thread, and I originally said I liked and used 42 HFV.
It is great wire, but you can get the same effect, with HPN.
Now I use the 42 HPN, for a lot less money.
T

[Telemachos]

.....It is great wire, but you can get the same effect, with HPN.
Now I use the 42 HPN, for a lot less money.
T

You're talking about this wire?

[big_teee]

You're talking about this wire?

Yes that is the HPN.
They call it Enamel, which is not to be confused with Plain Enamel.
They call all wire Enamel.
The Solderable Polyurethane in the description is the insulation type.
It makes great Strat Single coils.
That is about all I use the HPN for.
T

[rhgwynn]

That's probably pretty correct.
The HFV will produce the 63 Strat Woody Tone, that I like.
If your winding for a Strat, don't forget the 250k Pots, and the .1uf Cap.
It is part of that tone.
T

.1uf?? I always thought that .047uf was the way to go??

-Rob

[big_teee]

.1uf?? I always thought that .047uf was that way to go??

-Rob

Not if you want the original strat tone.
Here is a 50s, 60s, 70s, and Eric Johnson models.
http://support.fender.com/service_di...1002B_SISD.pdf
http://support.fender.com/service_di...1000C_SISD.pdf
http://support.fender.com/service_di...7000A_SISD.pdf
http://support.fender.com/service_di...7702A_SISD.pdf

[rhgwynn]

What type should I get? Oil/Paper?

-Rob

[copperheadroads]

Vintage Fenders has the ceramic disc