Formvar & more

[angelodp]

Hi, new to the forum. I am getting ready to make pickups. I have my winder set-up ( sewing machine type with reed/calculator counter ).
I am going to make my own flat work and hope to keep cots way down. Can you all suggest various sources for 42 & 43 Formvar wire please. I know the usual sources StewM and Mojo. If you know any others that are cost effective.

Best and thanks for all the good info here.

[big_teee]

Welcome to the beginners Corner.
The Vintage wires are getting harder to come by.
That includes Heavy Formvar HFV, and Plain Enamel PE.
Don't forget, or overlook all the other fine wires out there.
The most common now is the SPN Single Poly Nylon.
the relationship between wire and tone is Outside Wire Diameter OD, and Ohms DCR per Foot.
Wire size varies greatly, and that is why some wires for certain applications sound better than others.
Good luck,
Terry

[David Schwab]

Here's a good source:

Electrical Test Equipment, Industrial Supply MRO items in BAE MAGNET WIRE store on eBay!

They have regular and heavy build formvar and even plain enamel.

If you are going to use regular build formvar, save your money and use SPN.

[big_teee]

Here's a good source:

Electrical Test Equipment, Industrial Supply MRO items in BAE MAGNET WIRE store on eBay!

They have regular and heavy build formvar and even plain enamel.

If you are going to use regular build formvar, save your money and use SPN.

They appear to have everything but the 42,43 AWG Formvar.
Formvar seems to be more scarce than PE, these days.
It would be nice if they would keep us winders a constant stock of the regular wires that most of us use.
On the list would be
42,43,44 AWG Red SPN.
42 43 AWG Natural HFV
42,43 AWG Brown PE.
This would take care of 99% of winders needs.
Terry

[big_teee]

Here is the contact Info for BAE Wire.
If you need anything, You can email or call.

Teena Ridicoloso
BAE Wire & Insulation Inc.
941-309-0900 Phone
941-309-9473 Fax
TeenaR@baewire.com

** Teena emailed me back with HFV Prices.
The current price is
43 HEAVY FORMVAR 3" SPOOLS MW15/105C $33.75/LB
42 HEAVY FORMVAR 3" SPOOLS MW15/105C $29.50/LB

Edit*** Small rolls of 42, & 43 HFV are now available at the BAE Ebay store.
stores.ebay.com/BAE-MAGNET-WIRE

[David Schwab]

They appear to have everything but the 42,43 AWG Formvar.

Why would you want single build formvar? I have some, and it's the same as single build poly.

I also have heavy build poly and its the same as heavy build formvar. They don;t sound any different. It's the thickness of the insulation that matters, not what its made from.

Usually when you see formvar being used, it's heavy build.

If you are looking for heavy formvar, they have that:

AWG 42 HEAVY FORMVAR Copper Magnet Wire | eBay

Their stock on ebay changes from week to week, but if you contact them they have everything.

[big_teee]

Why would you want single build formvar? I have some, and it's the same as single build poly.

I also have heavy build poly and its the same as heavy build formvar. They don;t sound any different. It's the thickness of the insulation that matters, not what its made from.

Usually when you see formvar being used, it's heavy build.

If you are looking for heavy formvar, they have that:

AWG 42 HEAVY FORMVAR Copper Magnet Wire | eBay

Their stock on ebay changes from week to week, but if you contact them they have everything.

I agree with David. If using FV use HFV. For single use SPN, or PE, if you must.
They had No HFV until I contacted them, now There is lots of it Listed.
They will also sell direct, if you don't do FleaBay!
Just Use the Contact Info I listed Above.
Later,
T

[David Schwab]

They had No HFV until I contacted them, now There is lots of it Listed.

That's the way it is. Stuff changes from week to week. I needed some 44 poly one time so I asked about it and they put it up.

They've had HFV in the past because I bought some last year.

[angelodp]

Thanks for the info. So formvar is not some magic formula, its dimensions, winds, gauge, coating thickness, magnet types and level of charge. More?

Have you ever seen a dual winding with 43 and 42 at the same time in parallel?

[David Schwab]

Thanks for the info. So formvar is not some magic formula, its dimensions, winds, gauge, coating thickness, magnet types and level of charge. More?

Have you ever seen a dual winding with 43 and 42 at the same time in parallel?

Formvar was the trade name for polyvinyl formal resin, or "formal varnish." It's just an insulation used on magnet wire. It's in the family of "modified polyvinyl acetal resins." It has excellent electric insulation characteristics and is tough, so it was used for things like motor winding insulation. But it doesn't sound any different from something like poly nylon (SPN).

The main thing is that formvar wire is often heavy build, so the insulation is much thicker than single build. This makes the coil larger and puts more space between turns.

The rest of the things you mention are what gives different pickups their tones.

There's been some discussions here on bifilar (dual winding) coils. One pickup maker was winding the coil this way, and then leaving opposite ends of the coils open. So the connection between the start and finish was being done by mutual induction.

I've never wound any bifilar coils, but I do often use two different gauges of wire.

[angelodp]

David, can you elaborate on the use of varied wire gauge? Do you start with 42 and then go to 43, vice versa? What are your findings with this method.

[David King]

Dual gauges are most often used on humbuckers where one coil will be wound with 42 and the other with 43. Switching gauges halfway through a wind doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me but I suppose it would give similar results to using 42-1/2 gauge if that's what you needed but couldn't find it.

[big_teee]

Some of us make the Hybrid 42, 43 Gauge Humbuckers.
I make one where I put 42 on the screw coil, and 43 on the slug bobbin.
Makes a very strong, and nice sounding bridge Humbucker.
It great for Overdrive, and cleans up well.
Making a pickup winding 2 sizes of wire at once, would be a challenging experiment, but think it would end up being just That!
Let us know Your results, if you try it?
Good Luck,
B_T

[angelodp]

Hey guys my very first pickup....don't laugh please. I know its rough but I wanted to just experiment on general technique. Its a Charlie Christian sort of idea, but prob not even close. Anyway... had some scarp iron for the blade and used hardware cheapo magnets. Its 9.5 !!

I almost screwed things up when I went to check continuity.... I know .... resistance. So I almost melted the lead!! When I realized what the heck I was doing I checked the Ohms and saw 9.5 and was happy.

There's my winder - counter is not so accurate. Waiting for the CUB 3000 to arrive.

Question - should I simple was pot this baby or wrap some string around it? Or tape? or ??

[David Schwab]

David, can you elaborate on the use of varied wire gauge? Do you start with 42 and then go to 43, vice versa? What are your findings with this method.

On each coil, as others have stated. This was a Dimarzio patent that has since run out. They do it on a lot of their humbuckers.

There are pickups with two gauges on each coil. Luthier Harvey Citron does this, and Peavey recently got a patent on it.