OLD tube tape recorder !!

[Valvehead]

I hope theres a couple guys on here that have worked on these !

I have a WEBCOR model TP2718 1/4" tape recorder -- early 60's ???

I replaced the rotted ac cable and she powers up--tubes look ok .

But -- there is one belt that came off , and I hope someone can tell me how its routed ---or even draw a picture ?
I am posting some good pics so you can see the rollers , etc...
I just cant tell exactly where the rubber belt needs to go ? Not seeing any obvious grooves , etc...

If anyone could please have a look


My friends father is on his death bed and I was asked to grab some of his old gear to look at / restore/ etc...

the sisters dont get along and I do NOT want his 50-60's gear just "pawned" off . You know ?


PICS _

[soundguruman]

I'm pretty sure you gotta take off the capstan plate to replace the belt.
The best bet may be a "sam's photofact" service manual.

[Tom Phillips]

...The best bet may be a "sam's photofact" service manual.

That was my first thought too. In addition to searching for the WEBCOR model TP2718 one index I found listed it as included in "Photofact Set 357 Folder 11."

[km6xz]

The transport has direct wheel direct drive for the reels and a belt drive for the counter, which is in the 3rd photo laying loose. It can be put over the pulley under the digital counter. The capstan fly wheel should be visiable from underneath where the motor drives the large center flywheel. When you get it done, it will not sound great, never did when new but there are a number of adjustments to make. The take up reel hub has a paper shim someone tried to make out of thin card board. Loosen the set screws and move the hub up about 1-2 mm. That was usually done because the tape path was misaligned and the bottom of the tape was scraping on the guides.
The machine was intended for low bias tape which will hard to find since it was not used for many years. To use modern high bias tape, you might need to modify the bias oscillator to have more output.
Before ANY work on it, check the heads. If badly worn, they can either be machined down or have to be replaced. The head was pretty soft material back then so it probably has a deep groove in it. Some models had a replaceable pole piece. If this is one of the Webcor's that did, you can replace it by carefully pulling it out and getting a new one without removing the head. Finding a replacement pole piece is going to be a pain however since about the only place that would still have one is an old old mom and pop TV repair shop that has one getting dusty on the shelf. The best part of these old Webcor's is that they used few belts and relied on idler pulleys driven from the main flywheel, the worst part of these is that they did not sound great. If you can find tape that can uses a moderate flux density, say 185nW, you might be able to get the bias up enough but the more common high bias tape, like 456, 499, 469 will need at least 250nW flux density. HF response will be poor if you can't adjust it high enough.
Good luck

[soundguruman]

Whatever.

[Valvehead]

The transport has direct wheel direct drive for the reels and a belt drive for the counter, which is in the 3rd photo laying loose. It can be put over the pulley under the digital counter. The capstan fly wheel should be visiable from underneath where the motor drives the large center flywheel. When you get it done, it will not sound great, never did when new but there are a number of adjustments to make. The take up reel hub has a paper shim someone tried to make out of thin card board. Loosen the set screws and move the hub up about 1-2 mm. That was usually done because the tape path was misaligned and the bottom of the tape was scraping on the guides.
The machine was intended for low bias tape which will hard to find since it was not used for many years. To use modern high bias tape, you might need to modify the bias oscillator to have more output.
Before ANY work on it, check the heads. If badly worn, they can either be machined down or have to be replaced. The head was pretty soft material back then so it probably has a deep groove in it. Some models had a replaceable pole piece. If this is one of the Webcor's that did, you can replace it by carefully pulling it out and getting a new one without removing the head. Finding a replacement pole piece is going to be a pain however since about the only place that would still have one is an old old mom and pop TV repair shop that has one getting dusty on the shelf. The best part of these old Webcor's is that they used few belts and relied on idler pulleys driven from the main flywheel, the worst part of these is that they did not sound great. If you can find tape that can uses a moderate flux density, say 185nW, you might be able to get the bias up enough but the more common high bias tape, like 456, 499, 469 will need at least 250nW flux density. HF response will be poor if you can't adjust it high enough.
Good luck

thank you km -but, for American English sake....paragraphs.. periods etc.,

[J M Fahey]

The periods are *all* there, not one missing.
The following phrases start with a capital letter, as they should.
All of them.
Yours do not always do so, as in "the sisters" , and in "thank you km".
Yes, he might have hit "carrier return" after each ending dot.
Big deal.

[Jazz P Bass]

What a wonderful reply, KM.
The part about the bias type was certainly enlightening.

[km6xz]

Sorry about the poor structure of my post. That occurs often when rushed for time, and writing as stream of consciousness. If I think about a post, it usually is more readable.
In this case, I had a GF begging me to come "shopping", a term that usually means "give me your credit card". Concurrently thinking about a not too minor emergency at the office to attend to, in addition to still frazzled by the 12 hour time change, without sleep for 36 hours traveling from Central California to St Petersburg.
Combined, these factors meant it was not a high priority to get the information out in a refined form. Those few who seem to get something out my comments usually ignore grammar and style inconsistency.

[Tom Phillips]

Sorry about the poor structure of my post. That occurs often when rushed for time...

Stan,
The structure of your post looked fine to me.
All the capitalization and punctuation seemed to make it through to my screen.
I’m impressed that you take the time to provide so much detailed & useful information and tell such interesting stories.
Cheers,
Tom

[Valvehead]

I apologize km6xz . I had quite a bit to drink during the Super Bowl party , I was just being a smartass

[Valvehead]

Well, i got it to play today but the tape speed isnt steady. The belt on the left wheel looks a bit sloppy--maybe its stretched a bit ?

I cant get it to reverse either and the FFW seems to work half of the time. I think the owner just wants it to get it shipped home. Any recommendations on a shop in the Nashville area ?

Thanks for the help guys. Pretty darn cool to see it actually working !

[Enzo]

Good luck finding a commercial shop. You need to find a tech with a sense of humor and a willingness to putz around with old stuff. I am usually hesitant to take on projects like that because it can become VERY labor intensive when you have to strip it all the way down to clean out dried up old lube and then relube/oil the mechanism.

If you want to restore it as a project, go for it. If you want it running because you have stuff recorded on tapes you want to hear, (or whoever wants to hear) it might make more sense to take your tapes somewhere and have them dubbed onto CD or other modern storage.


Wobbly tape speed suggests the capstan first, how hard is that pinch roller rubber? Does the pinch roller spin freely when not "pinched?" The big flywheel drives everything like STan said. There is an idler tire from it to the reel table on each side. If the idlers cannot spin freely when held away from contact with the other stuff, that can hold you up or make takeup iffy.

And those idler tires have to be able to grip, so if they have gotten hard, they will slip. SLipping idlers won;t have the torque to turn the reels for fast wind, same as a slipping belt in that regard. Plus stiff lube on idler shafts.

And the motor shaft bushings need to be free turning and lubed.

[Kazooman]

Finding parts may be next to impossible. You can get new pinch rollers (or have yours restored) here:

Terry's Rubber Pinch Rollers & Wheels

[Valvehead]

Thanks guys -

I do like Enzo's idea of at least getting the tape transferred to a cd for now.

At this point I think she wants to ship it back home like it is and get it repaired in the future. I hope to find someone in Nashville thats familiar with these old beasts.
The other thing is we are also picking up a huge old TEAC 1/4" machine. Its minty so Im hoping it works. Its HEAVY .