Advice on a super hot, mini mini portable amp

[its.cabs]

Hey, guys, Cabs, here. New to this whole thing, and am looking for advice on a super hot, mini mini portable amp with great sound. I mean, like 3 - 4 inch, 4ohm MI speakers, with the whole package fitting in a very small (think pignose) sized cabinet. Personally, I'm looking for that 1947 Fullerton 8" single fat blues thang, only smaller, and portable for busking and cafe gigs. So, 1st, kits and schematics aside, who makes great small speakers that deliver quality sound and volume? The project on the bench right now is a scavaged old Washburn Lyon LA5, solid state going (now) to 2 3.5", 4 ohm, 5 watt speakers via dc or 9v battery power supply. Close, but don't think these car stereo speakers are gonna cut it. Might just end up as a cabinet for the old laptop... Thanks, loads, from Costa Rica. ...cabs

[tonequester]

Greetings to it's cabs !

Hey, guys, Cabs, here. New to this whole thing, and am looking for advice on a super hot, mini mini portable amp with great sound. I mean, like 3 - 4 inch, 4ohm MI speakers, with the whole package fitting in a very small (think pignose) sized cabinet. Personally, I'm looking for that 1947 Fullerton 8" single fat blues thang, only smaller, and portable for busking and cafe gigs. So, 1st, kits and schematics aside, who makes great small speakers that deliver quality sound and volume? The project on the bench right now is a scavaged old Washburn Lyon LA5, solid state going (now) to 2 3.5", 4 ohm, 5 watt speakers via dc or 9v battery power supply. Close, but don't think these car stereo speakers are gonna cut it. Might just end up as a cabinet for the old laptop... Thanks, loads, from Costa Rica. ...cabs

tonequester here.


Welcome to the forum. I don't know if you could possibly use a 6" speaker or not with your rig. If you can, I would check out Weber Speaker's. The website is Weber Speakers - Making the world a bit louder each day.. They are hand-made, and I can attest to their quality. The price compared to Emenence, celestion, etc.,is very reasonable. i just checked, and they carry two 6" speakers. They are in their Signature series. Both are 4 Ohm, 15 W. The one with a 7oz. Alnico magnet is $45.00 and the ceramic model is $30.00. I checked another source for 4" ,but came up cold. If your amp can drive a 5W. speaker well. it should probably be able to drive one rated at 15W. The problem may well be having the
room to spare for a 6". If you do have room, a 6" speaker would give better bottom end than a 4'. I like the Webers so much that I replaced the stock speaker on a brand new Blackstar Ht-1R, 1W.,practice amp with an 8" Alnico Weber, 8 Ohm 10W. speaker. the single Watt drives that speaker a. o.k.. If you must go with a smaller size you might try Mouser Electronics, or Digi-key. They are hugh electronics suppliers. I tried Pyle Audio, who makes both home and auto speakers but it seems that they don't sell
individual speakers anymore. If you can, give the forum a little more time, i'm sure someone will have other recommendations. I really love those Webers though, and you can't beat the price for hand-made, quality, and the selection of either Alnico or ceramic magnets. Good to "meet" you here. Wish you the best with your project.
tonequester.

Quote : "I've been a long time leaving, but I'm gonna be a long time gone." Willie Nelson.

[Sowhat]

Man, a low cost everyman amp with that 47 Fullerton sound (you mean a primitive Fender... like a K&F?) is something I believe that every guitarist wants but those won't do the every place thing. I have struggled through dozens of amp combinations over the years and have finally settled on a bizarre solution that no body uses, I mean nobody, and I don't know why because it solves all amp problems. It ain't cheap but it's not real expensive either. Basically it consists of a relatively stock ESP P27 amp and pre amp switchable for either 120V/60Hz or 240V/50Hz mains, that's 100 watts solid state and this is driving a 12" Eminence Texas Heat in an pop hatch iso cab hauntingly similar to the Demeter iso cab design. I can get concert tone at a whisper or literally blow you away with it's full power and volume... the modern wonderment of having both a gain and master volume control, if that ain't enough is has a built in Heil P30 mic to run out to the PA for those gigs you play at Wembly Stadium. It has built in wireless and hot and cold running water... just kidding about the water. :-) You can button it up, hatch closed and record in the live room without any cross contamination and the amp is so low noise you have to look for the pilot light to make sure it's even on. The thing fits into the front passenger seat of my car and fits into the smallest club or bar stage with room to spare. Naturally I had to build it myself because no one offers anything even close. Gives you some pause to think about what amp manufacturers force on the unsuspecting public these days.

You can use it all by itself but I use a simple stomp board consisting of a Voodoo Labs Midi ground control pro hooked to a Digitech Whammy DT and a Delta Labs DGFX1... afterall you got's to have some toys, right!

[rjb]

I mean, like 3 - 4 inch, 4ohm MI speakers, with the whole package fitting in a very small (think pignose) sized cabinet.

Since Pignose amps use a 5" speaker, I'm guessing that's small enough for your purpose.

...portable for busking and cafe gigs.
...small speakers that deliver quality sound and volume?
...dc or 9v battery power supply.

For your application, I'd say get the highest efficiency speakers you can find; "higher efficiency" = louder.

In another thread about Dano Honeytone 1W mini amps, someone recommended Jensen's Mod series.
This one has a sensitivity of 91.5 dB @ 1W,1m: Mod 5-30 | Jensen Loudspeakers

I'm considering getting this Dayton speaker to do double duty as a "wearable" Honeytone extension cabinet and a small PA monitor:
Dayton Audio PA130-8 5" Full Range PA Driver 295-010

[its.cabs]

Since Pignose amps use a 5" speaker, I'm guessing that's small enough for your purpose.


For your application, I'd say get the highest efficiency speakers you can find; "higher efficiency" = louder.

In another thread about Dano Honeytone 1W mini amps, someone recommended Jensen's Mod series.
This one has a sensitivity of 91.5 dB @ 1W,1m: Mod 5-30 | Jensen Loudspeakers

I'm considering getting this Dayton speaker to do double duty as a "wearable" Honeytone extension cabinet and a small PA monitor:
Dayton Audio PA130-8 5" Full Range PA Driver 295-010

OK, y'all... good leads, and I'll look at these suggestions. The Jensen Mod series sounds in the ballpark for this app. SoWhat's custom all purpose 100w sounds like a great rig. Next on the project bench. Love to see the schematics. But for now, it's small, portable, powerful - that's the objective. And yes, I do mean that fat nasty sound of an old Fender 8" little tweed cab. Wicked. The only one I ever played was priced so as not to be sold. Guy had a shop full of the latest and greatest, and played that beat up old Fullerton everyday, hehe. Can't says I blame him. Ok, gents, thanks. Back to the salt mine. -cabs

[rjb]

I've got a question for those in the know:

Given a 30W speaker with sensitivity 91.5dB at 1W/1m Mod 5-30 | Jensen Loudspeakers
and a 5W speaker with sensitivity 100dB at .3W/.5m http://www.mouser.com/ds/0/PUI-Audio...PR-R-30848.pdf
which will be louder when driven by a 1W amplifier?

[tonequester]

tonequester here.


I'm not saying that I'm "in the know", but from several sources I been told that for every increase in 3db, the perceived volume doubles. This of course with all other considerations being the same. If you use one watt of outpit with either speaker, it would seem that the one with higher sensitivity would sound louder. The thing that i wonder about, is if
one can have a spealer rated too high to make use of the 1W. output. i can tell you that my Blackstar 1W. HT-1R came stock with a 15W. speaker and it does not lack for volume. I was actually amazed at how loud one Watt could be. It's far too loud for "bedroom" use. Your speaker is rated twice that of my stock speaker, but I'd bet that with almost 3x the sensitivity
1W. would be surprizingly loud. One also might want to consider just how the power was rated for the two speakers. There doesn't seem to be alot of consistency in the industry.
The preferred method seems to be rating in RMS, but "music power", which seems to be about twice the RMS power for the same device is also used, and some companies even use peak
values. Like I said, don't take my thoughts as "GOSPEL". As opinionated as the forum gets, you'll no doubt have several answers to "mull" around. I hope that at least i gave you something to think about. I wish you good luck and success with your project. tonequester.

[rjb]

...I been told that for every increase in 3db, the perceived volume doubles.

You been told wrong.
For every increase in 3dB, the actual power doubles.
For every increase in 10dB, the perceived volume approximately doubles.

Perceptions of Increases in Decibel Level
Imperceptible Change	1dB
Barely Perceptible Change	3dB
Clearly Noticeable Change	5dB
About Twice as Loud	10dB
About Four Times as Loud	20dB

If you use one watt of outpit with either speaker, it would seem that the one with higher sensitivity would sound louder.

I didn't state my question clearly. I meant to ask which of the speakers mentioned has the higher *actual* sensitivity.

The 30W speaker is said to produce 91.5dB at a distance 1 meter from the speaker, when a 1W signal at 1kHz is applied.
The 5W speaker is said to produce 100dB at a distance 0.5 meter from the speaker, when a 0.3W signal at 1kHz is applied.

Of course 100dB is higher than 91.5dB - but it's being measured from half the distance from the speaker.
In other words, my question is "are they fudging the specs?"
And how would you convert sensitivity stated in 0.3W/0.5m to the more standard sensitivity in 1W/1m?
(I think I know how, but am looking for confirmation from someone who knows for sure.)

[tonequester]

tonequester here.


Thanks for the reply rjb, and greetings. Thanks for the correction, from your explanation I am now a little more in the know ! Have a great one. tonequester.

[eschertron]

In other words, my question is "are they fudging the specs?"
And how would you convert sensitivity stated in 0.3W/0.5m to the more standard sensitivity in 1W/1m?
(I think I know how, but am looking for confirmation from someone who knows for sure.)

Definitley weird to express sensitivity as .3W/.5m, but it could be close to equivalent with 1W/1m.
IIRC from physics lab, for a point source, the intensity (here power) drops off at the inverse-square relationship. So the .5m measurement of 100dB would register a quarter of the power (6dB down?) at 1m. Is the speaker a point source? probably not at those distances, so the inverse-square is a worst-case value. So I'd take a SWAG and say that the 5W speaker will produce about 100dB - something a little less than 6dB (for distance) + something a little more than 3dB (for the .3W to 1W increase) and give you about 98dB at 1W/1m.

That's my rusty old two cents' worth

[printer2]

3 dB is a doubling of power. Easiest way to hear the difference in loudness in 3dB is to put your stereo in mono with the speakers together and play one speaker only. Then adjust the balance so both speakers are playing. There you go, 3 dB increase.

Comparing the two speaker efficiencies, plug in the numbers to end up with the missing information.

Peak SPL Calculator

Unless I made a mistake 99dB @ 1M but they also have a +/- 3dB spec and I really do not think it is 3dB greater so better to assume 96dB. Also this is in the range of frequencies they specify and some speakers are designed to have a treble peak, the midrange could be a few dB less.

[eschertron]

Great calculator link, nice to have!