New Compact Winder Being Designed

[big_teee]

Remington Industries, is in the process of designing and building a New winder for Us Pickup Makers.
They wanted to know what we wanted and didn't want on a winder.
They are looking at the Schatten, and the Thomas.
Probably here on the forum.
I suggested a kit of all major components.
If you have any suggestions Post them here.
Hopefully they will come up with something that is not terribly expensive, like their wire.
I liked David S. suggestion that winders have a lighted counter.
Terry

[David Schwab]

Remington Industries, is in the process of designing and building a New winder for Us Pickup Makers.
They wanted to know what we wanted and didn't want on a winder.
They are looking at the Schatten, and the Thomas.
Probably here on the forum.
I suggested a kit of all major components.
If you have any suggestions Post them here.
Hopefully they will come up with something that is not terribly expensive, like their wire.
I liked David S. suggestion that winders have a lighted counter.
Terry

Oh this is good news. I just ordered some magnet wire from them yesterday.

Hmmmm let me put some thought into this and compile a list!

[big_teee]

Oh this is good news. I just ordered some magnet wire from them yesterday.

Hmmmm let me put some thought into this and compile a list!

They sell lots of big machines, They want to get into the small winder market also.
I suggested a finished and a kit winder.
I told Larry the sales guy it needed a heavy duty motor, probably DC.
A heavy speed control. Possibly a foot switch jack.
It needs a medium Large display 5 digit counter.
It needs the right and left bobbin arms, Etc.
Now is the time to input, before they start buying parts.
Also Remington wants to branch out and sell some winding supplys, like hook up wire, and different Tapes that we use.
So I think they see the revenue available in the Booteek Winding Market.
Any input will benefit all of us!
T

[big_teee]

Bump!
Anyone got their 2c that they want to get on a ready made winder.
Like Specifics on motors, counters, Rpm, Speed Control type, how big, how long the mandrel shafts are, how close, & how long the stop bars are, & etc?
B_T

[Chris Turner]

Some sort of auto-traverse would certainly be handy...

[big_teee]

No traverse.
Just a basic heavy duty hand winder.
I think remington already sells some of that.
T

[SonnyW]

I've already got a winder I like, so I probably won't be buying one, but I do have some inputs. Maybe this will help start up some controversy around here it has been too quiet lately.

1. Ergonomics for the winder operator needs to be taken into consideration. I am an industrial engineer by training. Everyone has their winding style that they have become accustomed to, but here are my inputs on it. The centerline of the shaft needs to be at least 6 inches above table height and no more than about 10 inches back from the front of the baseplate for best view of the spinning bobbin. IMHO the shaft on the Schatten winder and some of the others I have seen is too low and too far back for comfort day in and day out. The shaft just needs to be positioned so that it is in the optimum place for viewing.

2. Speaking of viewing, a light on some kind of adjustable arm or gooseneck would be nice as well as some way to mount a white card behind the bobbin. Look at Abigail in the video and the light and background she is using: The Queen of Tone.. (Abigail Ybarra) - YouTube
This also illustrates what in my opinion is a good positioning of the shaft.

3. If the motor is reversible I see no need for the second shaft.

4. I would like to see round tooling plates instead of rectangular, and ideally there would be a way to make them replaceable and interchangeable. On my own machines I made the tooling plates myself. If the shaft had a coupling with say a half inch bore with a set screw and the tooling plates had a half inch shaft on centerline then it would be easy to interchange them for different mounting needs. One idea is to make the tooling plate out of an aluminum disc with a steel or brass rod press fit into it that would slip into the bore of the coupling on the shaft. That way there can be a tapped hole on the centerline which is useful for many types of mounting. It is just my idea of it here is a photo of one of my tooling plates. This one is good for various humbucker bobbins and single coils. It is made from a disc about half an inch thick with a brass rod about an inch and a half or two inches long press fit into it before facing it off and tapping the 4-40 hole on center.



That ought to be controversial enough to get some comments

[JCrab]

This is good news,, I like SonnyW input on the ergonomics, I have a home made arm rest I use

[big_teee]

In this Reply I am going to make a numbered list of Items wanted on winder.
Go over it and reply what you do or don't agree with.
Then I will send list to Larry at Remington.

1. Heavy duty DC Type Sewing machine Motor? Or Maybe another type motor??? please advise.
2. Perhaps a Sprocket type pulley, and belt, please respond???
3. Double ended Ball bearing Mandrel shaft, and with no run-out. (Required for winders that do Top Going only!)
4. Mandrel needs to be 6-9 inches above table height.
5. Stop Bars are at What Height??? Please respond
6. If Financially feasible, round tooling plates instead of rectangular, and ideally there would be a way to make them replaceable and interchangeable.
7. Jack for foot switch, and foot switch.
8. Speed Control Reostat located in a forward location??? Please respond
9. Speed limitations??? What doe the speed range need to be?
10. A backlit large display 5 digit counter??? any recommendations.
11. Optical Sensor on Mandrel shaft??? any recommendations.

[Chris Turner]

In this Reply I am going to make a numbered list of Items wanted on winder.
Go over it and reply what you do or don't agree with.
Then I will send list to Larry at Remington.

1.Heavy duty DC Type Sewing machine Motor.
2. Perhaps a Sprocket type pulley, and belt, please respond???
3. Double ended Mandrel shaft.
4.

Definitely a well-lit, high contrast counter... red on black LCD display or an LED display?

[big_teee]

Definitely a well-lit, high contrast counter... red on black LCD display or an LED display?

Got any recommendation for a 5 digit counter?

[enkindler]

IMHO a modern BLDC motor would be much nicer than an old DC motor and easier to control the speed of.

Please consider this vs an ancient horrid brushed motor speed control. If you had to do inductive it is cheap to source three phase motors and there are many good COTS VFD and BLDC drive IC's that would give us awesome acceleration and deceleration ramps.

[big_teee]

IMHO a modern BLDC motor would be much nicer than an old DC motor and easier to control the speed of.

Please consider this vs an ancient horrid brushed motor speed control. If you had to do inductive it is cheap to source three phase motors and there are many good COTS VFD and BLDC drive IC's that would give us awesome acceleration and deceleration ramps.

Maybe different motor options could be available, for US, and European, and whatever the rest of the world needs.
Possibly in a kit it could be with or without motor option.
T

[big_teee]

In this Reply I am going to make a numbered list of Items wanted on winder.
Go over it and reply what you do or don't agree with.
Then I will send list to Larry at Remington.

1. Heavy duty DC Type Sewing machine Motor? Or Maybe another type motor??? please advise.
2. Perhaps a Sprocket type pulley, and belt, please respond???
3. Double ended Ball bearing Mandrel shaft, and with no run-out. (Required for winders that do Top Going only!)
4. Mandrel needs to be 6-9 inches above table height.
5. Stop Bars are at What Height??? Please respond
6. If Financially feasible, round tooling plates instead of rectangular, and ideally there would be a way to make them replaceable and interchangeable.
7. Jack for foot switch, and foot switch.
8. Speed Control Reostat located in a forward location??? Please respond
9. Speed limitations??? What doe the speed range need to be?
10. A backlit large display 5 digit counter??? any recommendations.
11. Optical Sensor on Mandrel shaft??? any recommendations.

I am making this Thread a Sticky until I send the info to Remington, then I will turn it loose.
This thread is an open thread, and please keep responding!
Thank you,
Terry

[enkindler]

Maybe different motor options could be available, for US, and European, and whatever the rest of the world needs.
Possibly in a kit it could be with or without motor option.
T

The controller would be completely different.

DC is better than a simple shaded poll AC motor but a three phase or BLDC motor allows you to say "accelerate to 5000 RPM in a logarithmic way over 4 seconds" or keep an RPM regardless of load or provide s particular force despite an RPM. They will also take feedback from say, a load cell on a tensioner.

All of this is via SPI, so the programming difficulty goes way down.

Brushed DC motors are great for a home built kit but if you are making a new commercial winder for sale it would be best to use modern technology.

For prototyping RC plane motors are BLDC and actually would be big enough for a pickup winder. I made one heck of a prototype with a 50 oz inch Nema 17 bldc motor but I did not want to spend the time making a frame for it.

I use a converted mini lathe with a three phase AC motor and a VFD, this is overkill for pickups but with a 1/4 HP three phase motor I get between 2 and 7500 RPM's with acceleration and deceleration ramps.

I still hand wind but being able to set the deceleration ramp means I can wind at almost full speed until my target wind count and the controller decelerates at the last moment. The ramped acceleration prevents issues when I stop to check the Ohm's when winding by "feel"

Also these new motor drivers do active deceleration, meaning they turn the motor into a generator and put the output to ground in a controlled fashion. So my emergency stop does full on braking, it is not saw stop fast but it is pretty quick.