Bridge Pickup Too Bright

[jrdamien]

As I refine my winding I am finding my bridge pickups to be too bright/shrill. Anyone want to share some secrets about getting a smoother tone from them?

Is there a general rule about number of winds on humbucker coils as regard bass/treble? I wound a 10k humbucker using 42awg and even it was too bright.

[big_teee]

As I refine my winding I am finding my bridge pickups to be too bright/shrill. Anyone want to share some secrets about getting a smoother tone from them?

Is there a general rule about number of winds on humbucker coils as regard bass/treble? I wound a 10k using 42awg and even it was too bright.

It can be several things.
If it is a bright LP Type guitar, they are known for jamming the pickup close to the bridge making it bright.
You can try different magnet types, A2, And A3 Are warmer.
Try less gauss of the magnets.
IMO Asymmetrical coil winding helps some. Putting more wire on the slug coil, than the screw coil.
You have already tried the making the coils fatter, that usually makes them less bright.
Above all keep experimenting.
If you come up with the magic bullet, be sure and share it here.
Good Luck,
T

[SonnyW]

As I refine my winding I am finding my bridge pickups to be too bright/shrill. Anyone want to share some secrets about getting a smoother tone from them?

Is there a general rule about number of winds on humbucker coils as regard bass/treble? I wound a 10k humbucker using 42awg and even it was too bright.

1. What Teee said. (especially if you used a ceramic magnet)
2. Don't rule out a change of the tone capacitor value. Increasing winds is the usual way to darken up a humbucker, but at some point that can start to get muddy. Increasing the value of the tone cap will cut trebles, even with the tone control set on bright (unless you use a no load pot).
3. Also, decreasing the ohm value of the pots will cut trebles by moving and broadening the resonant peak.

[rjb]

2. Don't rule out a change of the tone capacitor value.... Increasing the value of the tone cap will cut trebles, even with the tone control set on bright (unless you use a no load pot).

Or you can throw a cap directly across the p'up (I think).
G&L effectively does that here (schematic thanks to David Schwab in some past thread).

[big_teee]

As I refine my winding I am finding my bridge pickups to be too bright/shrill. Anyone want to share some secrets about getting a smoother tone from them?

Is there a general rule about number of winds on humbucker coils as regard bass/treble? I wound a 10k humbucker using 42awg and even it was too bright.

We've all given a lot of ideas.
Can you please answer some of the questions we all presented.
Like, is this with one particular guitar or is your bridge pickup too bright with all guitars?
Also can you give more info on what magnets are you using, etc?
What value of Pots, and Caps are you using?
What type and size wire are you using?
Are you winding loose components, or are you using kits, if so which ones?
Thanks,
T

[jrdamien]

Can you please answer some of the questions we all presented.
Like, is this with one particular guitar or is your bridge pickup too bright with all guitars?
Also can you give more info on what magnets are you using, etc?
What value of Pots, and Caps are you using?
What type and size wire are you using?
Are you winding loose components, or are you using kits, if so which ones?
Thanks,
T

That's a whole lot to answer. I was just trying to get a feel for various winding techniques for a warmer pickup. To answer all your questions would be to list everything from 44 to 43 to 42 awg and all the magnets under the sun.

All my pickups are loose components.

A very precise example: bridge humbucker for a 25.5 scale guitar. 10k of 42awg with equal wind per bobbin (so stuffed bobbins). A2 mags, 2 lead wire and a .033 cap. Too bright, owing much to the scale length. All of these factor under consideration, what would be my next move for winding the coil to warm it up?

I also seem to consistently wind very bright strat bridge pickups with a5 rods. I know this is a common thing for strat bridge and I can tame it by winding it well over 9000 winds, or using more wind and a2's, but I have heard more vintage spec'd a5 bridges that aren't ice picks. I just haven't found a recipe for them...yet.

Yes, I can always use capacitors to tame the highs, but I like to use this as a last result because of what else is lost when using capacitors.

[big_teee]

That's a whole lot to answer. I was just trying to get a feel for various winding techniques for a warmer pickup. To answer all your questions would be to list everything from 44 to 43 to 42 awg and all the magnets under the sun.

All my pickups are loose components.

A very precise example: bridge humbucker for a 25.5 scale guitar. 10k of 42awg with equal wind per bobbin (so stuffed bobbins). A2 mags, 2 lead wire and a .033 cap. Too bright, owing much to the scale length. All of these factor under consideration, what would be my next move for winding the coil to warm it up?

I also seem to consistently wind very bright strat bridge pickups with a5 rods. I know this is a common thing for strat bridge and I can tame it by winding it well over 9000 winds, or using more wind and a2's, but I have heard more vintage spec'd a5 bridges that aren't ice picks. I just haven't found a recipe for them...yet.

Yes, I can always use capacitors to tame the highs, but I like to use this as a last result because of what else is lost when using capacitors.

Very good.
Sorry if I was too invasive. :<)
So, it's not just one guitar.
You have tried different magnets, different caps,and you have winding experience.
That rules out a lot, thanks.
You might experiment with tension, tpl, and the Asymmetrical coils, on the Humbucker.
On the Strat Bridge single coil?
I would try shortening the height of the bobbin.
Everyone has a different idea on strat bobbin height.
I have seen them as narrow as .390", and as tall .500".
The standard 11mm for neck and middle is IMO, OK.
I like a little shorter on the bridge.
Shorter fatter coils are less bright.
I also do the tone cap mod on the bridge Pickup.
Please let us know what you come up with?
T

[Sock Puppet]

Hi,

String gauge, pickup height and angle (move the treble side away from the strings) could both make a difference.

As could a lower value pot on the bridge.

Good luck.

[big_teee]

Hi,

String gauge, pickup height and angle (move the treble side away from the strings) could both make a difference.

As could a lower value pot on the bridge.

Good luck.

Thats all Good information.
However, He's wanting to know how to warm up the pickup through winding techniques.
Anyone want to share any of the tone winding tricks, that is what I think he is after?
I would like to hear them too!
T

[jrdamien]

Sorry if I was too invasive. :<)

No, no. Just didn't want to get into 'that' kind of list.

You might experiment with tension, tpl, and the Asymmetrical coils, on the Humbucker.

What are you referring to when you say 'the asymmetrical coils'?

I would try shortening the height of the bobbin.

This is where I'm focusing most of my effort - making extensive notes on this sort of 'tuning' so I can make up a set of jigs along these lines. I'd really like to have a set of about 10 incremental jigs that allow me to tune a pup according to the players guitar and amp and tastes.

I also do the tone cap mod on the bridge Pickup.

Well I feel dumb asking but, what is the tone cap mod?

[jrdamien]

Thats all Good information.
However, He's wanting to know how to warm up the pickup through winding techniques.
Anyone want to share any of the tone winding tricks, that is what I think he is after?
I would like to hear them too!
T

Exactly. I feel confident I could make the darkest guitar sound bright and the brightest sound like a jazz rig by combination of strings, height and caps. I'm trying to get more...esoteric.

[big_teee]

Symmetrical is both coils equal in turns, and asymmetrical is one coil has more turns of wire than the other coil.
This is controversial, but here goes.
One line of thought is if both coils are equal, they cancel out some highs. thus reducing some treble.
The other school of thought, is whichever coil has the most wire picks up more sound from that area.
So if the screw coil of a bridge pickup has the most wire, nearest the bridge, then It may be more treble in sound.
If there is more wire on the slug coil, then it could be less bright.
It can be experimented with by having a pickup with unequal coils, and turn the pickup around in the pickup ring.
Don't want to start a big debate, just want to give things to try, and you can come up with your own ideas and opinions.
The strat mod I was referring to is just strapping the mid tone to the bridge tone on the 5 way switch.
I have some crude spacers I use for bobbin height, but always finish measuring with my dial caliper.
Good Luck,
T

[jrdamien]

Symmetrical is both coils equal in turns, and asymmetrical is one coil has more turns of wire than the other coil.
This is controversial, but here goes.
One line of thought is if both coils are equal, they cancel out some highs. thus reducing some treble.
The other school of thought, is whichever coil has the most wire picks up more sound from that area.
So if the screw coil of a bridge pickup has the most wire, nearest the bridge, then It may be more treble in sound.
If there is more wire on the slug coil, then it could be less bright.
It can be experimented with by having a pickup with unequal coils, and turn the pickup around in the pickup ring.
Don't want to start a big debate, just want to give things to try, and you can come up with your own ideas and opinions.

Cool. Just wanted to clarify before we got into it. This is, in fact, how I've been winding humbuckers for awhile now, especially wide range type pickups with rod magnets and for humbuckers going into 25.5 scale guitars. I think it makes a pretty obvious difference, the obviousness of it depending on scale and location of pickup. So we at least agree on that.

I feel as if it can make a large difference which coil gets wound hotter or cooler (and by how much) than its opposite coil. And, of course, outside of a certain percentage the hum bucking can be compromised.

The strat mod I was referring to is just strapping the mid tone to the bridge tone on the 5 way switch.

Right. It's actually frustrating to me that all strats don't come like this or don't get wired like this.

[soundguruman]

One trick is to wax the bobbins. It kills the highs real fast.
The trick is not to over do it, just enough and not too much.

[David Schwab]

One trick is to wax the bobbins. It kills the highs real fast.

No it doesn't. Where did you get such an idea? Every Fender pickup is wax potted and they are plenty bright. Most modern humbuckers are wax potted too.