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Thread: what is the plastic tubing that comes with a pickup for?

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    what is the plastic tubing that comes with a pickup for?

    i have bought a couple of pickups recently and noticed they both came with two pieces of short plastic tubing as well as two springs, Now i know what the springs are for but what are these plastic pieces for i cannot for the life of me figure it out.

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    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    It's called 'guitar pickup mounting rubber'.
    You can use it instead of the spring.
    Less vibration.
    Link: Guitar Pickup Mounting Rubber

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    LOL

    "Compressible Tubing"

    I think it's made of latex but I'm not sure.

    -Rob

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    There can be a great many extraneous sources of vibrational noise in an electric guitar, that will drive a player bonkers. And vibrating adjustment springs/screws is one of them.

    Personally, I'm waiting to see when someone comes up with "silent" vibrato springs that have a light rubber or vinyl coating to dampen them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    There can be a great many extraneous sources of vibrational noise in an electric guitar, that will drive a player bonkers. And vibrating adjustment springs/screws is one of them.

    Personally, I'm waiting to see when someone comes up with "silent" vibrato springs that have a light rubber or vinyl coating to dampen them.
    You must be the only one, because every devoted floating bridge/tremolo user I know of, including myself - 1) takes the back covers off, and 2) has an appreciation for the natural reverb of the tremolo springs. If yours are rattling in an unpleasant way, you should get that fixed.

    -Rob

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhgwynn View Post
    You must be the only one, because every devoted floating bridge/tremolo user I know of, including myself - 1) takes the back covers off, and 2) has an appreciation for the natural reverb of the tremolo springs. If yours are rattling in an unpleasant way, you should get that fixed.

    -Rob
    Noiseless Springs [ANS0001] - $9.95 : FU-TONE.COM, OFFICIAL BIG BLOCK PERFORMANCE UPGRADES FOR YOUR GUITAR!

    There you do!!! Seen many other types to including what looks to be a heavy gauge shrink tubing on the springs

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    Wow, that place spreads a little BS to go along with the FU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David King View Post
    Wow, that place spreads a little BS to go along with the FU.
    Tell me about it! There's nothing special at all about those springs. They look just like new springs from Fender to me; maybe with a new coat of poly on them to gloss'm up a bit. What a steamin' pile...

    -Rob

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    Personally, I'm waiting to see when someone comes up with "silent" vibrato springs that have a light rubber or vinyl coating to dampen them.
    The spring "reverb" sound is part of what makes a Strat a Strat! I kind of like it.

    You can also just put a piece of foam between the springs and the body.

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David King View Post
    Wow, that place spreads a little BS to go along with the FU.
    They also seem to be taking credit for the Babicz full contact bridge!

    FU-FCH BRIDGE [FU-FCH] - $179.95 : FU-TONE.COM, OFFICIAL BIG BLOCK PERFORMANCE UPGRADES FOR YOUR GUITAR!

    How about a $450 tremolo block?

    http://www.fu-tone.com/catalog/index...roducts_id=182

    "...
    provides the most amazing tonal response ever heard from a Floyd Rose."

    .
    EVER! That and some paper-in-oil caps and you are all set.
    .




    I think it's time for this again...

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    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


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    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    WTF!
    'The volume knob creates vibrations that get in the signal path.'
    What a planet!
    7 billion idiots.

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
    WTF!
    'The volume knob creates vibrations that get in the signal path.'
    What a planet!
    7 billion idiots.
    Not all idiots. Only the ones that paid $485 for a stinkin' wooden knob. And I'm sure they had some sales.

    But none of us bought them, so we are cool.

    Now just stay away from the $50 fake paper-in oil-tone caps! lol

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    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


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    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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    That website just looks to me like a small part of an elaborate insurance scam. Just imagine the losses they could claim if they were stolen, or if there to be a small fire in the corner of their shop where those darn pieces of wood were stored.... Insurance guy says, "Oh you lost 50 wooden knobs?? So, 50$ should cover it...?" Shop owner says "HELL NO! Those were special!!! Worth a damned 485$ EACH!! I got a WEBSITE to PROVE IT!! Now git'cher checkbook out, Imma need 24250$!!!! I gots meh some ordahs to feeell!!!" LOL

    -Rob

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    Hey now, easy there fellows. I happen to make a large part of my income from making aftermarket wooden knobs. I don't get quite that much but you'd be surprised how time consuming something like that is even if it's all CNC machined. You spend 2 x the time sanding and another 4x finishing them.
    Regarding the titanium bridge blocks, until you've spent a day trying to drill deep holes in titanium you might want to reconsider that price.
    I've made plenty of tone blocks and they are time consuming. He sells the copper and brass ones for a lot less that I'd want.

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    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    Oh that Kyle is a real hoot.
    He 'modifies' units for audiophile customers.
    As of this writing he is MIA. (I cannot imagine why, after reading some of the stuff he pulled.)
    Here is a low down:AudiogoN Forums: Anyone get jipped by Reference Audio Mods?
    And check out this 'mod' he did to a CD player.:Impressions & Review (With Pics): Sony XA9000ES w/ Reference Audio Mods Modifications | Steve Hoffman Music Forums
    Sigh. I'm in the wrong business.

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    Hi David K,

    I don't know about drilling titanium, and I've never begrudged an artist or craftsman the time for their work. I couldn't say where the wood came from, what kind it is, or a host of other factors that can affect prices. I know there are some VERY expensive woods out there and I would pay for it if I both could and wanted to! But I do strongly wonder about the actual description used to market those knobs... It reminds me very much of some audiophile marketing like that $400 outlet, and when my friend wanted to put music in his store and he paid more in speaker wire than for the whole stereo system. There is such a thing as useful art or practical beauty. I would never have paid my friend to paint my amp faceplate if she tried to overcharge because she could make it sound betterdue to the crystalline lattice alignkent patterns between the different colors of dried paint. But she did a gorgeous job and I would have paid four times more without blinking if she had asked.

    Justin

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    Last edited by Justin Thomas; 02-02-2013 at 05:49 PM. Reason: add info
    "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
    "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

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    All fools and their monies are soon parted. We can all play the fool in some part of out lives. I'd rather see some audiot-phile blow some hard earned $$ on a silly mod to his stereo system than buying his 27th AR15 rifle or a bottle of white Rhino horn to help with his erection. The harm is limited and the rest of us can (safely) have a good laugh at his expense.
    How about this?
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B3G8UGQ

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    Last edited by David King; 02-02-2013 at 08:33 PM.

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    Hi David

    At 95 kgs I'd have trouble sitting on it never mind the prospects of trying to navigate the i pad screen !!

    Cheers

    Andrew

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David King View Post
    All fools and their monies are soon parted. We can all play the fool in some part of out lives. I'd rather see some audiot-phile blow some hard earned $$ on a silly mod to his stereo system than buying his 27th AR15 rifle or a bottle of white Rhino horn to help with his erection. The harm is limited and the rest of us can (safely) have a good laugh at his expense.
    How about this?
    Amazon.com: CTA Digital 2-in-1 iPotty with Activity Seat for iPad: Baby
    If He has 26, I don't figure the 27th will change anything!

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    Last edited by big_teee; 02-03-2013 at 04:57 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by David Schwab View Post
    Not all idiots. Only the ones that paid $485 for a stinkin' wooden knob. And I'm sure they had some sales.

    But none of us bought them, so we are cool.

    Now just stay away from the $50 fake paper-in oil-tone caps! lol
    Now I get it, I have a buddy that used to say, when referring to some idiot," What a knob."

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    Quote Originally Posted by David King View Post
    Regarding the titanium bridge blocks, until you've spent a day trying to drill deep holes in titanium you might want to reconsider that price.
    If you are drilling titanium, in anything resembling production, there are special drill bits and special coolants intended for just this job, and they are worth their price.

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    Joe, luckily I've gotten away from that chore for now but always good to have a few tricks up the sleeve for the next time. I keep TIN coated parabolic drills around but not sure if that'd be the best thing for Ti. The other specialty drill I have are 3 flute carbides and I've never found a good use for those yet.

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    All hard steels inc titanium are easily drilled with stellite drills. They have been around a long time as I remember buying my first one in the seventies. Strange looking beasts with a round shank and a triangular drilling core with normally small half circles ground into the tips. You need drill press and heavy pressure so that without using any coolant the workpiece heats up and softens but the stellite takes the heat easily and that heat doesn't cause any workpiece damage. Once the hard steel starts to cut then it's quick but allow it all to cool down before handleing. Small sizes are not too bad in price but once you start up the ladder the big boys mean you dipping into the pension fund. Grabbed a pic off the net to explain the funny shape.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	stellite bits.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	81.5 KB 
ID:	21785  

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    Allways been my thoughts that the springy sound comes mostly from the trem springs and not the pickups.

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    I know that this is drifting off topic, but titanium isn't really that difficult to machine and drill. It isn't some super-hard metal like hardened steel. Most commercial-grade titanium bar stock and rod stock is annealed and is about equal in hardness to mild steel. You can cut it just fine with normal HSS drill bits and end mills. They do make special drill bits and mills for cutting titanium, which are ground to better cutting geometry. They will give you better efficiency in a production run, but they aren't essential.

    What's nasty about titanium is that it work-hardens in a flash. If the spot where the cutting edge of the drill bit is digging in gets too hot, it will instantly harden up, jamming and snapping off the drill bit. Drilling a hole in titanium is all about keeping that point of cutting cool. Slow drill speed, coolant, and a steady, controlled cutting load. As long as you keep that temperature down in a certain range, it will drill and mill just like mild steel.

    It's easiest to cut titanium in a CNC machine, because you can accurately control the speeds and feeds, and keep them within range. You can drill and mill titanium on manual machines, but you just have to be careful and patient. I don't do many titanium parts here in my shop, but I've done some.

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David King View Post
    Hey now, easy there fellows. I happen to make a large part of my income from making aftermarket wooden knobs. I don't get quite that much but you'd be surprised how time consuming something like that is even if it's all CNC machined. You spend 2 x the time sanding and another 4x finishing them.
    Regarding the titanium bridge blocks, until you've spent a day trying to drill deep holes in titanium you might want to reconsider that price.
    I've made plenty of tone blocks and they are time consuming. He sells the copper and brass ones for a lot less that I'd want.
    You make very nice wooden parts. I wasn't talking about that. It's the claims about that knob, as well as the price.

    I played with a guy that got a brass tone block from him for his Floyd, and apparently had the work done by him too. I was not at all impressed and the thing didn't fit right.

    I'm sure you can get a titanium block made at a machine shop for a lot less. But the question is why would you even want to?

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    I don't know about drilling titanium, and I've never begrudged an artist or craftsman the time for their work. I couldn't say where the wood came from, what kind it is, or a host of other factors that can affect prices. ...
    It says it's beech wood. I doubt it was custom made.

    The other funny thing is the reference to "C37" lacquer. This is a clear lacquer painted on the knob to improve the sound of the amp!

    They also paint it on speakers, turntables, and PC boards.

    C 37 lacquer by Ennemoser

    Get ready for some fun reading!

    From the manufacturer's website:

    C37 Acoustics Dieter Ennemoser - Violin Maker & Acoustic Researcher

    "Carbon at body temperature = C37structure, where

    C = carbon and 37 = temperature in °Centigrade.

    These material-specific resonances of our ears would drastically distort our perception of other sounds,
    but they are filtered out by the brain, leaving an accurate and apparently objective image of our
    acoustic environment. However, this objectivity is deceptive. Although the timbre of our own hearing
    mechanism is no longer audible, our subconscious senses transmitted energy. The sound then has a
    subjective strength and warmth. "

    "C37 Lacquer is a concoction of different resins and solvents, all optimized to adjust the sound of a
    mechanical system to that of the human ear. This lacquer is almost clear with an amber cast.
    Although it dries to the touch in one day, it requires about 10 weeks to harden completely and attain
    its maximum effect. During the drying period, performance of the treated components will
    vary considerably, with the system sounding good one day and horrible the next."

    The price is $192 10ml bottle. It's basically clear nail polish.

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    Last edited by David Schwab; 02-03-2013 at 09:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    Hi David K,

    I know there are some VERY expensive woods out there and I would pay for it if I both could and wanted to! But I do strongly wonder about the actual description used to market those knobs... Justin
    Well, the description says it is beech. That is a VERY cheap wood. I checked the price at the place where I purchase most of my wood. At a 2" thickness (premium price) beech is $3.61 per board foot. I can't tell the size of the knob from the picture, but let's say it is roughly 2" x 2" x 2". That would amount to $0.20 worth of wood. At 3" all round it would be $0.68. Now I understand the concept of waste in turning such a piece (I cannot imagine it was dnoe using CNC. It is a SIMPLE turning and sanding, finishing, etc. would be SIMPLE), but we have quite a stretch to get us to the asking price. Those brass inserts for the shaft must be very expensive. No wait..... they aren't!

    I'll have to check out that website. It must be loaded with a lot of amazing deals such as this one.

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  29. #29
    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazooman View Post
    I'll have to check out that website. It must be loaded with a lot of amazing deals such as this one.
    The website is gone. He seems to have gone out of business just recently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Johnson View Post
    I know that this is drifting off topic, but titanium isn't really that difficult to machine and drill. It isn't some super-hard metal like hardened steel. Most commercial-grade titanium bar stock and rod stock is annealed and is about equal in hardness to mild steel. You can cut it just fine with normal HSS drill bits and end mills. They do make special drill bits and mills for cutting titanium, which are ground to better cutting geometry. They will give you better efficiency in a production run, but they aren't essential.

    What's nasty about titanium is that it work-hardens in a flash. If the spot where the cutting edge of the drill bit is digging in gets too hot, it will instantly harden up, jamming and snapping off the drill bit. Drilling a hole in titanium is all about keeping that point of cutting cool. Slow drill speed, coolant, and a steady, controlled cutting load. As long as you keep that temperature down in a certain range, it will drill and mill just like mild steel.

    It's easiest to cut titanium in a CNC machine, because you can accurately control the speeds and feeds, and keep them within range. You can drill and mill titanium on manual machines, but you just have to be careful and patient. I don't do many titanium parts here in my shop, but I've done some.
    Yes. Like stainless steel, but more so. And gummy. I do SS all the time, but have not as yet done any titanium. For SS, use lots of heavy cutting oil, low drill rpm, a very heavy hand, and don't stop for anything. The point is to keep the bit cutting under the hardened layer from the previous rotation of the drill bit. But I read a lot about how to deal with titanium, and if one is making for instances these bridges for sale, I bet getting the right stuff is worthwhile.

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    Smile Forgot the details...

    Hey all,

    I was just trying to give the benefit of the doubt... I'm not up on my "exotic woods pricing!" Before I pay crazy money for anything of this nature I try to say, would practicing make more impact? Or maybe tuning, or twiddling my knobs? Or turning up my amp? That <definitely> makes an impact on the vibrations that get back into the sound stream! What can I do myself to help out before I sink a paycheck? I mean, those things are a little more WORK on my end, but free. Maybe as a last resort after all else fails I'll buy a $450 knob, after I try making one myself, of course. And I'd use silver cuz it's a better conductor, and I'm an electric guitar player. Calling it art is one thing, this is another! Well, enough of my opinions... Carry on.

    Justin

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    "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
    "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

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    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    Hey all,

    I was just trying to give the benefit of the doubt... I'm not up on my "exotic woods pricing!" Before I pay crazy money for anything of this nature I try to say, would practicing make more impact? Or maybe tuning, or twiddling my knobs? Or turning up my amp? That <definitely> makes an impact on the vibrations that get back into the sound stream! What can I do myself to help out before I sink a paycheck? I mean, those things are a little more WORK on my end, but free. Maybe as a last resort after all else fails I'll buy a $450 knob, after I try making one myself, of course. And I'd use silver cuz it's a better conductor, and I'm an electric guitar player. Calling it art is one thing, this is another! Well, enough of my opinions... Carry on.

    Justin
    There is no justification behind a $485 knob. Nothing about that knob cost that much, and the claims are all snake oil.

    But there's nothing wrong with spending some money on exotic wood knobs or pickup rings or whatever for the looks. And none of them cost $485.

    Titanium trem block? Not so sure about that. The block adds mass to the trem to help (along with stiff springs) prevent it from vibrating when the strings are plucked (according to Leo's patent). Steel or brass should be fine.

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    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


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  33. #33
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    I used to do a runs of african blackwood trem-blocks from one of my regular luthier clients. The trickiest thing was that NO TWO bridge plates were machined the same. The damned holes were all over the place and every batch that came in were different. I had made a complete set of drill guides for both LH and RH bridges but ended up having to start over again when the next batch came in.
    BTW deep drilling ABW is a trip too. That stuff melts onto the drill and you have to hose the drill down with Boelube between every peck.
    Now I'm doing a lot of strat style bone saddles which smells lousy but it actually machines really nicely with radius corner endmills. Apparently they sound OK too. I think guitar guys like to experiment with flavors of the month and if one cat does it then they all want to try before moving on to the next crazy idea. Having a whole range of different parts available to customize a guitar is a cool way of keeping an otherwise unplayed guitar in circulation. If one string sounds off you can toss different saddles at it until it conforms.

    I might be wrong but I believe those $485 beech wood knobs have the pointer integrated into the knob starting from a single block of wood. Not something your average wood turner handles everyday.

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    Hi David

    Looking at the colour of the pointers I would say they are glued in. Anybody that charges that kind of money for knobs is simply "taking the piss" as we say in Britain, and is sure as hell not going to put any more effort than needed into making the knobs. The HiFi industry has become absurd. I know a guy that has had a special building attached to his house with added mains supply isolated from the rest of the house, to improve the tone. 1500 euro mains cables etc, etc, It makes me laugh that they listen to the bluesbreakers recorded on fairly basic gear (great album) and was probably mixed to sound good on a car radio or a small hand held transistor radio which most people had access to.

    Cheers

    Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by the great waldo View Post
    Hi David

    Looking at the colour of the pointers I would say they are glued in.
    I think you are correct. Looking at the direction the grain runs that pointer would be very fragile and easily snapped off if it were from one piece.

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