Help this neebie(me) in amps and guitar tech

[coolforyou]

Hi guys ,

I am new to this forum . Hi to all , hope all are doing well .

I am a guitarist from india , i am playing in church , i have normal brand electric guitar called "TANSEN" . In Our church we have one keyboardist and one drummer(not manual drums , digital Drum pad)
and myself , we are using one digital mixer and we will give all our jack s to mixer and giving that output for our monitor speaker and to out(all speakers ) .

Now i am coming to point , while we are playing, i have noticed that my guitar sound will be very low compare to keyboard and Drum pad i.e., for example if i set volume in mixer for keyboard and guitar upto 5 out of 10 , i can feel that keyboard has wonderful gain and volume when compare to my guitar sound , even though i increase gain , high , mid upto max of my guitar jack in mixer , i am not getting volume equal to key board volume , even though the keyboard gain and everthing is low for keyboard jack in mixer .

My confusion and guess ,
1. is this because of Pickup in my guitar ?
2. or all the guitars will be like this because guitar is natural analog instrument ?


Now ,please give me a cheap solution for my problem . i searched in net , i found one small cute amp called amplug from VOX , and i got a idea of getting that vox amplug ( http://www.voxamps.com/amplug ) and output comes from amplug to mixer . Is this good idea ? or is there any good cheap solution for my problem ? please help me and i extremely sorry for my worst English

[mfreqmaster]

Your problem is the guitar is a low level instrument & is competing with 2 line level instruments (the keyboards & the electronic drums). You need a device to boost your signal to line level. The Vox amplug you mentioned should do that.

[coolforyou]

Your problem is the guitar is a low level instrument & is competing with 2 line level instruments (the keyboards & the electronic drums). You need a device to boost your signal to line level. The Vox amplug you mentioned should do that.

Thanks a lot for your wonderful reply @mfreqmaster ,

my doubt is , in VOX amplug , they have mentioned it as microphone amp , so will it work well when i give that VOX out to mixer ? i mean will the VOLTS get match to produce good sound ? or is there any proper method which can make guitar sound equal to keyboard ? i mean like any kind of analog device which increases the DB(decibel ) ? like analog distortion pedal alone is enough ? or digital processor will give what i am expecting ? what is the difference between analog pedal(MXR) and digital processor (like Zoom) i am in great confusion !!!!

my main motivation is to know how great guitarist like joe sat , steve vai , yngwie malmsteen ext ext , they can able to give sound equal to digital instrument or more than that . how can i get those sound with cheap solution , not exactly like them , at least to some extent in sound and quality .

[Steve Conner]

Joe, Steve and Yngwie use huge amounts of gain and distortion, and all sorts of effects like delay, reverb and chorus. You have your guitar plugged directly into a mixer, so you have hardly any gain at all and no effects.

A multi-effects processor like the ones made by Zoom and Boss, or a Line6 Pocket Pod, would help. Even a cheap entry-level model should include all the effects you need to get a saturated lead guitar tone like Steve Vai, all you need is a little practice. At the entry level, digital processors offer better value for money than analog.

Or buy a small amp with built-in effects like the Vox DA5. It has a line output jack that you can plug into your mixer.

The Amplug would probably work too, but you'll end up breaking the 3.5mm output jack.

[pdf64]

It would be very beneficial to have your own amplifier, positioned close to you, so you can hear what you are playing properly.
You may have difficulty hearing yourself if your guitar gets mixed in with other instruments.
My experience is that generally, each musician needs to hear their own instrument about 3 to dB louder than would be accepted in a normal mix.
Pete

[coolforyou]

Joe, Steve and Yngwie use huge amounts of gain and distortion, and all sorts of effects like delay, reverb and chorus. You have your guitar plugged directly into a mixer, so you have hardly any gain at all and no effects.

A multi-effects processor like the ones made by Zoom and Boss, or a Line6 Pocket Pod, would help. Even a cheap entry-level model should include all the effects you need to get a saturated lead guitar tone like Steve Vai, all you need is a little practice. At the entry level, digital processors offer better value for money than analog.

Or buy a small amp with built-in effects like the Vox DA5. It has a line output jack that you can plug into your mixer.

The Amplug would probably work too, but you'll end up breaking the 3.5mm output jack.

Thanks a lot for you useful message @Steve Conner ,

So you mean , both multi-effects processors (zoom , boss , Line 6 Pocket Pod ext) or built-in effects amps like Vox DA5 or other amps will help me in increasing the Gain and volume of my Guitar when giving its output mixer right ? if yes ,shall i buy one Multi-effect processor alone instead of buying Vox DA5 or other amps ? because Multi-effect processor is compact and i can carry to church easily , and i heard that i can even connect head phones to multi effect processor and i can practice without disturbing others right ?

so can you please tell me best cheap model of Multi-effect processor which gives a good and clean multi effects like distortion , clean , chorus ext and gain , volume ext for reasonable price . Thank s in advance

[Steve Conner]

So you mean , both multi-effects processors (zoom , boss , Line 6 Pocket Pod ext) or built-in effects amps like Vox DA5 or other amps will help me in increasing the Gain and volume of my Guitar when giving its output mixer right ?

Yes

and i heard that i can even connect head phones to multi effect processor and i can practice without disturbing others right ?

Some offer this feature, others don't, check the manual.

so can you please tell me best cheap model of Multi-effect processor

I don't use multi-effects, I prefer a tube amp and a few analog pedals. And my idea of guitar tone is more Wes Montgomery than Yngwie Malmsteen. So I'm not going to recommend one. Since you're in India, you may be limited in the range of products you can get, so you might as well go to the guitar store and try whatever units they sell.

[dmartn149]

I used to play, regularly at a local open mic where they were set up for a strummer/singer plugged into the mixer. They didn't like people bringing amps. I played my electric through multi fx. First a zoom 505 then various Digitech products. These will boost your signal, give you some effects that will sound just fine if you edit the presets, and a tuner too. Used Zoom 505's or digitech rp???s can be had very cheaply around here.

[coolforyou]

Yes


Some offer this feature, others don't, check the manual.


I don't use multi-effects, I prefer a tube amp and a few analog pedals. And my idea of guitar tone is more Wes Montgomery than Yngwie Malmsteen. So I'm not going to recommend one. Since you're in India, you may be limited in the range of products you can get, so you might as well go to the guitar store and try whatever units they sell.

Thanks a lot for your useful info and kind reply @Steve Conner ,

I hope you don't mind helping me in suggesting one cheap tube amp and one analog pedal - pedal which sounds like November rain from Gun's and roses - played by slash , that is the exact distortion effect and clean effect i want Steve Conner . I am not mush exposed to guitar technology like you do , of course i can buy it through online site like amazon if you suggest me one(tube amp and analog distortion pedal ) .

I have another doubt in connecting electric guitar , tube amp , pedal . I should connect electric guitar to analog pedal and then to tube amp and the out put of tube amp to mixer right ? sorry for too many request Steve Conner , it would be great helpful for me if i get the good one and some knowledge about it . Thanks in advance

I used to play, regularly at a local open mic where they were set up for a strummer/singer plugged into the mixer. They didn't like people bringing amps. I played my electric through multi fx. First a zoom 505 then various Digitech products. These will boost your signal, give you some effects that will sound just fine if you edit the presets, and a tuner too. Used Zoom 505's or digitech rp???s can be had very cheaply around here.

Thanks a lot @dmartn149 for your reply and help ,

Is it possible for me to connect tube amp's with digital processor s (like Zoom 505's or digitech rp ) without any collision ? because tube amp is analog and Zoom is digital process right ? sorry i am wrong , please correct me

[dmartn149]

I thought you were looking for a "cheap solution". A good tube amp is not going to be cheap. If you are going that route then skip the multi fx and just mic the amp. Multi fx into the mixer is the "cheap solution".
Yes you can plug a zoom, digitech, etc. into a tube amp just like any other fx.

[DrGonz78]

Trying to get a Slash sounding November Rain sound is very subjective at best. Slash never really used a DSP type effect and relied heavily on the full bore of a modded JCM800 tube amp for the Use Your Illusion album. There are many many many amps used in each session of the albums Slash has recorded. That is why most here are recommending a multi-FX unit to use as a front end on any amp or just to plug into a mixer on a PA. That IS the "cheap solution" you are looking to find. Slash never cut corners in prices of amps/FX by the time he was recording such stated albums. But this you probably already know, and I am really just stating the obvious.

So we are looking for a "cheap solution" to your problem... Then the answer has already been stated in previous posts. But what kind of tube amps are you looking at??? What price range are those amps??? Let us know what amps your looking towards buying as a way of weeding through what your budget allows. I am curious as to what is a good priced tube amp from Amazon.com as I really don't see anything there for a good price. What sort of resources do you have around your location? Is there anyone around your area making or selling tube amps?

Just realize that if you go with a tube amp you will probably just end up spending more and it will not be the "cheap solution" that your asking about, as other posters have stated. I like tube amps the best but that does not mean it is the "cheap solution" by any means. I say start with Multi-FX unit like the one's mentioned already and then save up for that nice tube amp to mic up one day. I would recommend the DigiTech RP355 as a great starter pedal. That pedal is worth it and should only cost about $100 USD USED on Ebay plus shipping. It has stereo balanced XLR output and they are good for recording/playing live. That one pedal can then be applied to a tube amp once you save up enough money later on. Still I just don't really like DSP processing, but if I was to buy a pedal that used DSP then that would be the one.

Let us know more about what amps your looking at buying. Don't rush it either and wait to make the decision based on all the advice you can get. Good luck dude!

[coolforyou]

Trying to get a Slash sounding November Rain sound is very subjective at best. Slash never really used a DSP type effect and relied heavily on the full bore of a modded JCM800 tube amp for the Use Your Illusion album. There are many many many amps used in each session of the albums Slash has recorded. That is why most here are recommending a multi-FX unit to use as a front end on any amp or just to plug into a mixer on a PA. That IS the "cheap solution" you are looking to find. Slash never cut corners in prices of amps/FX by the time he was recording such stated albums. But this you probably already know, and I am really just stating the obvious.

So we are looking for a "cheap solution" to your problem... Then the answer has already been stated in previous posts. But what kind of tube amps are you looking at??? What price range are those amps??? Let us know what amps your looking towards buying as a way of weeding through what your budget allows. I am curious as to what is a good priced tube amp from Amazon.com as I really don't see anything there for a good price. What sort of resources do you have around your location? Is there anyone around your area making or selling tube amps?

Just realize that if you go with a tube amp you will probably just end up spending more and it will not be the "cheap solution" that your asking about, as other posters have stated. I like tube amps the best but that does not mean it is the "cheap solution" by any means. I say start with Multi-FX unit like the one's mentioned already and then save up for that nice tube amp to mic up one day. I would recommend the DigiTech RP355 as a great starter pedal. That pedal is worth it and should only cost about $100 USD USED on Ebay plus shipping. It has stereo balanced XLR output and they are good for recording/playing live. That one pedal can then be applied to a tube amp once you save up enough money later on. Still I just don't really like DSP processing, but if I was to buy a pedal that used DSP then that would be the one.

Let us know more about what amps your looking at buying. Don't rush it either and wait to make the decision based on all the advice you can get. Good luck dude!

I thought you were looking for a "cheap solution". A good tube amp is not going to be cheap. If you are going that route then skip the multi fx and just mic the amp. Multi fx into the mixer is the "cheap solution".
Yes you can plug a zoom, digitech, etc. into a tube amp just like any other fx.

Thanks a lot for your explanation and for your Suggestion @DrGonz78 and @dmartn149 ,

Yes sure , i will give a try to DigiTech RP355 . But i didn't find any used one in ebay , but i found a used one in amazon (Amazon.com: Buying Choices: DigiTech RP355 Modeling Guitar Processor and USB Recording Interface ) for 140 $ , is it worth it for me to buy it for this 140 $ ? and i am new to online shopping , so will the used one from amazon be good in quality ? or i have to go only with ebay ( because you have suggested with trust) , sorry i am just afraid whether i will be cheated with some damaged processor from amazon . please help me guys .


Coming to Amp , as @Steve Conner said in the early post to give a try to vox DA5, little tube amp . It sounds great when i saw the demo in youtube(Vox DA5 Portable Battery Powered Guitar Amp - YouTube )
but i got one doubt while watching the demo video !!!!!!! why the demonstrator kept mic in front of vox DA5 ? instead he can directly give that preout or post out to mixer or another high voltage speakers right ? is it because the sound produces by tube amp gives the warmth sound only through its speaker and not through the preout or post out ? ....... thanks in advance guys ... you guys really teaching me lot of things .... I am so GLAD . THANK GOD FOR THIS .

[eschertron]

I give pluses ( +++ ) to the posters above who suggest a DSP pedal (one that you've heard and can live with) first, and then give thought to an amp afterward. I've used everything from battery-powered speakers to personal monitors to whatever amp I could wrangle (in my case, a small bass combo - neutral enough to hear what the DSP pedal was delivering) to hear myself onstage. Once you have a sound that you like from the DSP - and you are feeding a mixing station from that - then any amp you use as monitor should be as uncolored as possible. Even a computer speaker would work!!

[Steve Conner]

The DA5 is not a tube amp. It's basically a digital processor in a box with a speaker. The speaker may sound somewhat better than the line-out. There is no tube amp in there to add "warmth", but the speaker itself will colour the sound. I imagine the line out will still sound OK.

[coolforyou]

I give pluses ( +++ ) to the posters above who suggest a DSP pedal (one that you've heard and can live with) first, and then give thought to an amp afterward. I've used everything from battery-powered speakers to personal monitors to whatever amp I could wrangle (in my case, a small bass combo - neutral enough to hear what the DSP pedal was delivering) to hear myself onstage. Once you have a sound that you like from the DSP - and you are feeding a mixing station from that - then any amp you use as monitor should be as uncolored as possible. Even a computer speaker would work!!

The DA5 is not a tube amp. It's basically a digital processor in a box with a speaker. The speaker may sound somewhat better than the line-out. There is no tube amp in there to add "warmth", but the speaker itself will colour the sound. I imagine the line out will still sound OK.

Thanks a lot @eschertron and @Steve Conner ,

I came to a clear decision that i am going to buy " DigiTech RP355 Modeling Guitar Processor (a Digital Signal processor ) " which solves my volume problem by acting as a preamp(sorry if i am wrong) to increases the volume .

Now i am in great confusion with amp . what is amp ? I thought normal amp or tube amp will get my guitar input signal and amplify its signal then it will give it to its pre out or post out and to its speakers , so pre -out or post - out to mixer will make a low level instrument (guitar ) sound to high level , equal to keyboard sound . This is my understanding before . Since i am not good in english , i came to understand from you all that a guitar amp or tube amp is just like a monitor speaker for us right ? please correct me if i am wrong . so please forgive me , for my bad understanding

Actually we are 2 guitarist in our church , i am playing electric guitar and another one is playing acoustic guitar(ibanez) which is build with pick up in it . We both are facing the same sound problem , so i thought of planing to buy one tube amp , so that we both can plug in our jack to tube amp and the pre out or post out to mixer which we thought will resolve our sound problem . That s the reason why i thought of buying amp . But if amp is not for amplifying our guitar sound then it is waste for us to buy tube amp or normal amp right ? please make me clear guys ... sorry for disturbing you all