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Thread: Stacked Strat Bridge Pickup project!

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Stacked Strat Bridge Pickup project!

    Fixing to start the Stacked pickup project.
    I am planning on building a strat bridge pickup with the J-bass .781" A5 magnets.
    Was thinking of making the top bobbin height the Tallest.
    Also thinking of winding the top with small 42, then using 43, or 44 on the bottom area.
    Any Ideas or experience on this?
    T

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    Last edited by big_teee; 03-20-2013 at 08:39 PM.


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    Terry

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    I don't have any specifics for you right now Terry but I wouldn't glue the center Forborn to the magnets just yet.

    If you make the holes in the center divider a tiny bit larger than the rod magnets and the spacing turns out to be an issue you will be able to slide it up or down on subsequent test winds.

    Just be sure to leave the wooden spacers (or what ever material you choose) on the section of bobbin that you're not winding the wire on so it stays put until you're ready to wind that section.

    It will be pretty much an adjustable spaced bobbin for R&D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratz View Post
    I don't have any specifics for you right now Terry but I wouldn't glue the center Forborn to the magnets just yet.

    If you make the holes in the center divider a tiny bit larger than the rod magnets and the spacing turns out to be an issue you will be able to slide it up or down on subsequent test winds.

    Just be sure to leave the wooden spacers (or what ever material you choose) on the section of bobbin that you're not winding the wire on so it stays put until you're ready to wind that section.

    It will be pretty much an adjustable spaced bobbin for R&D.
    Great Info, and Ideas.
    I had not thought about the spacers.
    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratz View Post
    My Dad taught me that when I was a kid
    You don't have much room using .781" magnets .
    Just say you go with a flush bobbin & solid mustang style cover
    .062" top of bobbin
    .062" middle between coils
    .093" bottom baseplate
    This gives you .564" to divide between 2 coils .so roughly 1/4" per coil & I would go with taller coil on top & use smaller wire for the bottom coil ....either way its pretty limited with those dimensions
    remember a stack pickups output primarily comes from the top coil ,Not the overall DCR

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    1/4" will work. I dug this bobbin up from an old parts box and my notes say "awg 43 until full"
    I'm guessing late 80's early 90's because of the missing turns count.
    I know that I put a Veeder Root counter on my old winder in the early 90's

    I don't recall how they sounded but I knew I had once made a few

    Click image for larger version. 

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    I agree that some longer magnets would be nice.
    It's hard to find longer than the .781s without special order.
    So like Copper says, need to keep everything short on the top end.
    Also everything I'm reading says that you want more pickup on the top bobbin.
    Think we want the bottom coil to be act like a dummy coil.
    Was thinking of putting a thin piece of metal between the coils instead of using forbon.
    Only problem I see with that is it may short out the wire?
    T

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    I started the project yesterday.
    Slightly beveled the ,781" magnets.
    Cut out the .062" forbon middle divider.
    It has to be cut and fit so it will fit in the Strat Plastic cover,.
    It is cut to the same dimensions of the top piece of fiber.
    I need to cut a couple of 1/4 inch blanks to fit in the bottom space, while winding the top.
    Allowing 1/4" space at the bottom will leave a little over 1/4" for the top.
    Supposedly the top portion of the coil will pickup the most, and It will be a little larger.
    Phase one I was planning using 43 Gauge wire on both coils.
    If anyone has any suggestions, let me know.
    Also for the first 1.0 issue, was planning on running both start lead 28 Gauge tails, through the middle, to the bottom.
    This will allow them to solder on the bottom of the eyelets.
    Use one start for Hot lead, and use the other for ground.
    Just connect the two finish leads together, and maybe it will work.

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    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
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    I forget which way they are wired without my knotes handy ,but i think you got to go with a start & finish wired together
    & how many turns were you going after -till its really full -maybe

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    Quote Originally Posted by copperheadroads View Post
    I forget which way they are wired without my knotes handy ,but i think you got to go with a start & finish wired together
    & how many turns were you going after -till its really full -maybe
    If I wind both coils the same direction, I can wire them like a Humbucker.
    If you did the continuous wire Like Rob did, then one coil would have to be wound the other way.
    I glued the top and bottoms to the magnets.
    I have the middle piece loose floating.
    Maybe I can wind it tomorrow.
    Wife and I have both been under the weather for the weekend.
    T

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    Hopefully I will get it finished tomorrow.
    Didn't get to work on it much today.
    I did start winding the top coil, and it's hard to keep everything from moving around.
    I'm glad I took Stratz advice and put fillers in place of the unwound coil.
    Looks like I can get quite a bit of wire on the two coils.
    T

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    I have the middle piece loose floating
    I did start winding the top coil, and it's hard to keep everything from moving around.
    I'm glad I took Stratz advice and put fillers in place of the unwound coil.
    Looks like I can get quite a bit of wire on the two coils.
    T
    Terry, I hope you didn't drill out the divider, it needs to be quite snug not "floating" or you will likely have problems when you remove the wood spacers after the first section is wound.

    Mine were tight enough that I had to use the spacers to move the middle divider into position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratz View Post
    Terry, I hope you didn't drill out the divider, it needs to be quite snug not "floating" or you will likely have problems when you remove the wood spacers after the first section is wound.

    Mine were tight enough that I had to use the spacers to move the middle divider into position.
    Oh well, Easy come Easy Go!
    Like my Motto, "Nothing Difficult is ever Easy!"
    And, "If It's Not Difficult I'll Make it That Way."
    You told me not to glue it down.
    Looks like that would have been the thing to do now!

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    It's alright, just glue the ends of the top of the divider at the outer poles before you pull the spacers. DON'T glue the spacers in...lol
    It wont be adjustable but 1/4" will work fine if you fill the bobbins.

    Keep track of the turns if you would so I can add an approximate turns # to my old notes.

    Sorry, I guess I should have explained the process a little better.

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    I have that issue worked out, I have the bottom coil wound and finished.
    New issue.
    Now the top coil is open.
    I had a wire hanging out the bottom going through the coil to the top winding.
    I guess I somehow pulled the pigtail going to the top coil, and broke it.
    So now looks like I get to take the Exacto Knife to the top coil.
    Temporary set-back.
    It looks like it may be a good setup if I can get it all built.
    I have 6k on the shorter bottom coil.
    I plan on about 7k on the top coil.
    I have other things to do today, so it may be tonight or tomorrow before I get back on it.
    T
    PS: I am anxious, and look forward to getting it finished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    New issue.
    Now the top coil is open.
    I'm laughing out loud...

    I know, I'm a bad person. Sorry Terry.



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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    These multi bobbin and multi tap pickups are a PITA!
    I peeled it off, and I see what I did.
    I pushed up on the middle forbon before I glued it.
    I pinched a wire between the magnet and the forbon.
    Keep in mind this small diameter 43 I'm using is pretty fragile.
    Got to determine if the pickup is worth while.
    Then we will come up with better methods.
    I tell a lot on myself, that a lot guys don't tell us.
    Like the TV fisherman doesn't show most of the ones that got away, and the F-ups.!
    T

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    Supporting Member SonnyW's Avatar
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    I feel for you Teee, and I can tell stories on myself too... I burned up a lot of wire last year fooling with a stacked pickup design almost like this using the .781 tele magnets and two tops, I worked out what I thought would be a stacked humbucking design. I thought I had it down and so I jumped the gun and wound up two sets of them just to discover that I didn't get the phase right between the coils and they weren't hum cancelling. I had buried the connections between the coils under the second winding, and basically what I ended up with was 6 tall non-hum cancelling scrap pickups. It wasn't until I soldered the leads on that I figured out I had goofed. I didn't even try to cut the wire off, just put them in a box and went on to the next project and never got back to it. Maybe I will try again sometime.

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    I finished winding it this evening.
    It's Untested.
    I'm going with just two wire humbucking mode, and no split, or tap at this time.
    The top coil is 7k+, bottom coil is 6k+, somewhere around 13.5k combined.
    All starts and finish leads are accessible so It can be rewired if necessary.

    Attachment 22494Attachment 22495Attachment 22496

    This is a Prototype to test the Stacked design.
    For hum canceling, and tonal possibilities.

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    Last edited by big_teee; 03-20-2013 at 04:06 PM.


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    When I built my stacked pickups I used my coil calculator (or use this excellent Coil Estimator) but you can pretty quickly see how you need to split your bobbin.

    For example, that if you are winding the "Main" coil with a 42 Heavy Formvar on a standard Strat bobbin
    - using 43 Single Poly you can wind 50% more turns into the same space ... thus you need a 3:2 ratio (ie allocate 50% more space for the 42HFV wire)
    - using 44 Single Poly you can wind 100% more turns into the same space ... thus you need a 2:1 ratio (ie allocate 2x the space for the 42HFV wire)

    I used 42HFV and 43 SPN so my bobbin (11.5mm) had a 1.5mm flatwork in the middle leaving 10mm of winding area. I opted for 6mm space at the top, and 4mm space at the bottom, and got about 6000 turns on both.

    The top layer came out around 4.8k and the bottom around 6.2k

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    I wound slightly unequal coils of different height, and both the same gauge.
    I will try feeding the top taller coil, and grounding the lower coil.
    I will test it tomorrow.
    All of you guys are welcome to start and record your projects here on the BC.
    Also list your data, and show pictures.
    It makes it more fun and interesting when we all share and show our projects and data.
    Trying to share and show how different pickups are made.
    T

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    Last edited by big_teee; 03-20-2013 at 04:01 PM.


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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Just took the pickup down to the shop.
    I charged the magnets, and temporarily hooked it to the Amp.
    It is hum canceling, it is also in its present state extremely Microphonic.
    So first item tomorrow, is to warm up the wax pot and give it a good swim.
    Then I will give it the guitar test.
    I compared it to a strat single coil, and it definitely has less hum than the 7k single coil.
    Keep your fingers crossed!
    T

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    Last edited by big_teee; 03-20-2013 at 06:06 AM.


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    No need to go through the bother of potting it until you listen to it in a guitar first. Just stand away from the amp and keep the volume down to where it wont squeal.

    If you decide to rewind it it will be a mess.

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    IT IS A BIG SUCCESS!!!
    I went ahead and potted the Pickup.
    I put it in my test Strat, and was Pleasantly surprised.
    It is very quiet hum wise, and is good and loud, and does still sound stratty.
    It is very bright, so you do need a good tone control on it.
    Not sure if it would be right for neck and middle, but works well in the bridge.
    I hope others will give it a try, and If I can help with the mechanics of it, let me know.
    This project came out Well enough to warrant further testing and experimentation IMHO.
    T
    **
    So to recap.
    Used .781x.187" A5 Magnets.
    Both coils wound the same direction, with 43 Gauge SPN.
    Both Start leads go through to the bottom and tie to the eyelets, and cable leads.
    Both Finish leads are soldered together and taped on top, under the cover.
    Bottom coil is 1/4" bobbin height.
    Top coil is about 5/16" bobbin height.
    Bottom coil is 6k +, and Top Coil is 7k +.
    Total DCR is around 13.5k Ohms.
    This Project is a prototype to prove the Mechanics, and tonal possibillities.
    No TPL, or Total turns available at this time.

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    Last edited by big_teee; 03-20-2013 at 08:54 PM.


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    What's the inductance on a puppy like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    What's the inductance on a puppy like that?
    I have no idea, I have no test gear except a DMM.
    I was just wanting to try all different Pickup designs.
    Be able to help others here on the BC when They have questions or problems.
    I just did a repair on a Seymour Duncan Stack, so that gave me lots of ideas.
    It is a very bright pickup, I think 44 gauge would be a viable option also.
    I'm still partial to the Strat mini blades, but Strat Players Want Pickups to look like Strat Vintage Pickups.
    This fills that bill.
    I was pleasantly surprised how much hum these canceled.
    These seemed to be much more Hum canceling than the SD model I repaired.
    It can be split, but I've never been a big fan of the volume drops, with splits and taps.
    So I did the standard 2 wire Humbucking mode.
    So give it a try if you want to.

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    Last edited by big_teee; 03-20-2013 at 10:33 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    What's the inductance on a puppy like that?
    Probably somewhere between the high 4's to low 5's Mark.



    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    It is a very bright pickup,
    Good job T.
    Is it a useable bright or ice pick bright?
    You can dumb it down with some copper foil if it's way too bright.

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stratz View Post
    Probably somewhere between the high 3's to low 4's Mark.


    Good job T.
    Is it a useable bright or ice pick bright?
    You can dumb it down with some copper foil if it's way too bright.
    No it's stratty bright.
    I think I could up the cap on it.
    I had a humbucker in that position, and I think it has a small cap in there now.
    It's a usuable pickup, and could be adjusted.
    So tell me how to use the copper foil?
    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    So tell me how to use the copper foil?
    Thanks
    If there's room the easiest way would be to stick the foil to the inside perimeter of the cover. This way you wont screw up your pickup.

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    Hey stratz, dont you need something to help isolate the bottom coil from the top? A lot of pickups like this have some sort of metal plate surrounding the bottom and sides of the top coil.

    -Rob

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    there is no room in its present form under the cover for any isolating or shielding.
    I put a bigger cap on the bridge.
    That helped but it is still a bit bright.
    Got some other things to do, but when I get back to it I may tear it down and put a thin metal divider between the two coils.
    If I rewind it I will wind it with 44 Gauge.
    Also I'm wondering if by having one coil a bit taller if that does a bit of out of phasing.
    It's an interesting design, I'm not through messing with it.
    I encourage others to help on perfecting it.
    And, if you do, please share your results.
    Thanks,
    T

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    This may help you a little bit Tee.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    -Rob

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    I have wound stacks with & without a ferrous plate between the coils & without my extech at the time I did not notice much of a difference in tone or noise ....but I did not try it with high gain

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    Quote Originally Posted by copperheadroads View Post
    I have wound stacks with & without a ferrous plate between the coils & without my extech at the time I did not notice much of a difference in tone or noise ....but I did not try it with high gain
    I will try messing some more with it when I get time.
    For Now I took it out and put my 8k overwound SC in there.
    It rocks, I forgot how good it sounded, it had been in a box for a while.
    T

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    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    I will try messing some more with it when I get time.
    For Now I took it out and put my 8k overwound SC in there.
    It rocks, I forgot how good it sounded, it had been in a box for a while.
    T
    Stack vs real thing ,the real thing wins hands down
    but they do well in certain applications like a hot strat bridge pup

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