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  • #16
    And do not allow the wire (component lead) to move until the joint has set.

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    • #17
      Yes, i have a good station and i may not be a tech and I may be (no maybe about it !) a moren as electronics go, but one thing I think i DO know is soldering. Don't take this post as meaning i can't solder. Even the best driver will get into one accident in their lifetime ! This hardly ever happens to me, but sometimes solder just seems to have flowed well but didn't, and like i said the amount of wire there made it hard to see the result perfectly.

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      • #18
        "And do not allow the wire (component lead) to move until the joint has set."

        I was taught to make a good mechanical connection before soldering, which keeps the connection from moving while cooling. This is impossible with eyelets (old Fenders), so the above procedure must be followed.

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        • #19
          Sometimes you can actually see the solder, hot and shiny in the eyelet, turn dull and grainy and set up instantly if you move anything in the eyelet. When you have joints that are a lot more stable once both sides are connected you can often just solder the other ends of the components and leads before retouching the first joint hands off.

          And I want to reiterate something I mentioned in another thread. There's a lot of tall talk here about doing it "right" and I'm tired of judgement about not ALWAYS wrapping leads in the joint. I absolutely DO sometimes rely on the conductivity of solder. Here's a scenario... Power supply eyelet with four big leads and two lead wires jammed into it. Your replacing the filter caps.

          A) Snip the leads off the old component and use them like turrets to connect the new parts leads.

          B) Melt the joint and use your needle nose pliers to twist and force the old components lead from the eyelet. And then simply insert the new components lead into the eyelet, without wrapping, while re-flowing the joint.

          C) Melt the joint and suck it as clean as possible. Then remove the old component lead and any other wire leads on other eyelets that prevent lifting the board from both the board AND the chassis mount component. Sucking all those joints clean. Re-insert, often with difficulty or the need to reheat the joint/s, all the component and lead wires you've removed from the board. Being sure to wrap all the leads and lead wires in the eyelets. Replace lead wire as needed. Now re mount the board and re solder all the leads that went to chassis mounted things. Being sure to suck clean, reinsert with difficulty and wrap all those leads too.

          I'm a B guy.
          "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

          "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

          "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
          You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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          • #20
            I'll add my favorite tool - flux. I always have a dispenser handy. It's wonderful for helping both soldering and de-soldering and minimizes the heat damage as the iron spends less time on the job. You only need a little. If I'm using de-solder braid I always wet it with flux it's just so much more effective. If you have a cold joint add a tiny bit of flux and re-solder - shiny as new pin!
            Experience is something you get, just after you really needed it.

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            • #21
              +1
              I've seen tutorials on proper soldering technique and there is always extra flux on hand. So far I've just used my flux core solder with a fresh melt and done fine. But there have been times when I've been concerned about a solder blob dropping from the bottom of an eyelet. I only use the fresh melt technique because of the flux in the core. I've meant to acquire some flux, but just haven't done it yet. Since I'm up for more solder right now, this might be the time.

              While on the subject... You mentioned desoldering braid. I use one of those crappy bulb suckers. Many of the guys that do shop repairs have an actual desoldering station. Since it comes up almost as often in repair and modification, how about some discussion on desoldering and not just resoldering.?.
              "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

              "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

              "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
              You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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              • #22
                I waste a lot of $ on braid. I have a bulb too, but the braid is so much better in most cases. The bulb i just use for large amounts of solder then use the braid to to completely remove all that remains. Braid is indispensable to me.

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                • #23
                  I don't find the squeezy bulb things to work all that well, but I absolutely HATE braid. It makes me have to not only heat the joint until solder flows, I have to do it THROUGH the damn braid to get it that hot too.

                  I use my desoldering station most of the time. But for the occasional single suckout, I like the cylindrical cock it and push the button suckers. It puts a much stronger suction pulse than the rubber bulb can make.

                  If I plan to resolder stuff on a board, I often clean away most of the old solder first.
                  Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Enzo View Post
                    I like the cylindrical cock it and push the button suckers. It puts a much stronger suction pulse than the rubber bulb can make.
                    Can't agree more here... Most times I use cylindrical push button sucker first on a joint, of course adding some fresh melted solder first. Many times that gets most of the solder out of the way, but other times I finish the clean up w/ the solder braid. The braid can be good if you heat it up first then apply it to the solder joint and do not attempt to remove a large solder blob. I like them for tiny joints and for this clean up method only. The braid is a pain in the butt otherwise for large joints. Also, to point out that my comment applies to working on PCB type work. Point to point is another beast entirely and takes way more patience/care to remove solder.

                    Just the other week I had to remove the nastiest solder from a Fender Performer 1000. There were 9 legs from the input jack that had been re-flowed w/ solder by somebody a while back. No mater what approach I took, adding fresh melt solder for one, it was nearly impossible to get this solder off!!! As I finally got it off it came off in a kind of chalky/chunky way. Worst solder joints ever!! There was damage to the traces before I even began my work, as someone w/ bad soldering skills had worked on this amp. Amazing enough I did no further damage but had to apply heat for longer than you ever want. I guess I should have used some flux in this instance, but not even sure. It was nasty stuff!
                    When the going gets weird... The weird turn pro!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Enzo View Post
                      ..but I absolutely HATE braid.
                      I would agree, but only if you don't use additional flux. Can I suggest you give the braid + flux a try, you'll be amazed.
                      Experience is something you get, just after you really needed it.

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                      • #26
                        Yes ! Sorry, i said bulb because someone else said it and i didn't stop to think about it and just assumed he meant the spring loaded type like Enzo mentions. thats what i use. I've never seen a bulb type, but after this i assume it's like a turkey baster type of thing.
                        The only drag about the spring loaded jobs is when the solder gets jammed in them. But it happens less than you'd expect considering. I still use braid most of the time tho until i have to remove a lot of solder. Thats where the sucker is a must. then the braid does the fine tuning if u will.

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                        • #27
                          I've been meaning to get a de-soldering station or at least a spring loaded plunger. The bulb sucker just keeps getting the job done well enough. The biggest problems I have with it is fitting into tight places and the need to manipulate the action while keeping it in place. The spring plunger would seem to be more convenient and able to get into tight places more easily. I only tried braid once. That was enough. For big solder, like blobs on steel chassis used for grounds, I often just grind them off with my Dermel tool. I lost my gun long ago and never replaced it. But those big blobs would seem too cumbersome, hot and large for sucking anyway.
                          "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                          "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                          "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                          You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by DrGonz78 View Post
                            it was nearly impossible to get this solder off!!! As I finally got it off it came off in a kind of chalky/chunky way. Worst solder joints ever!! There was damage to the traces before I even began my work, as someone w/ bad soldering skills had worked on this amp.
                            In these cases I usually suspect plumbing solder.
                            Originally posted by Enzo
                            I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


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                            • #29
                              +1 on the Braid plus Flux. It really helps when you're trying to suck out a thru hole that hits ground plane on the board and you can't get to the other side of it with your iron.

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                              • #30
                                Me too.
                                I make my own desolder braid, by the way.
                                I make my own speakers so I always have a lot of speaker tinsel wire, which is very high quality braid with a cotton wire core (which I pull for this use).
                                I also have homemade rosin flux, to spray my self made PCBs, so dunking some spare tinsel wire into some flux and then using it to desolder is a natural.
                                And yes, of course you have to heat through the braid, you want it nice and hot to absorb molten solder through capillarity.
                                It cleans better than any sucking system I have ever tried.

                                Maybe cheap store bought braid skimps on flux impregnation (or has none at all) in which case it will certainly make a poor job.
                                Juan Manuel Fahey

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