Home built CNC router resources

[David King]

Regarding CAM software, someone recommended Sprutcam from Russia which runs $1200.
SprutCAM ? 3 Axis Milling
They can support up to 5 axis.

[Hugh Evans]

I've never seen that one before. At the moment I'm not sure if it would be best for you to start with 2D or 2.5D CAM to get started. The machine itself won't care what software you use... I'm inclined to make it the main focus, because there is no shortage of "right" answers with respect to software. Although I will offer my guidance.

SurfCAM has a free evaluation, although if lack the ability to save. There may be other similar evaluations although they are quite rare.

[jonson]

That's so true. For most 2-D work, a guy with a pin router and a good fixture will turn out parts faster than a guy wearing a lab coat running a CNC router. A CNC machine is capable of doing some very intricate work that would be difficult otherwise, but for simpler work, it's slower. Often any gains in speed during the cutting time are lost in the part-change time. It takes a pretty good CNC setup to match or beat the guy with the pin router.

By the way, I've heard that while running a CNC machine, you must wear a lab coat and safety glasses, hold a clipboard, and have a serious expression on your face. And you have to be spotlessly clean. No oily rags in your pockets, no smear of grease on your chin. The floor is freshly waxed. That's what it looks like in all the CNC ads I've seen. It doesn't look like any fun.

And, if all the data is in the machine in digital form, what is the clipboard for? Is there a box to be checked that says "Green Light On, Making Humming Sound"?

After 30 years with my big ole Wadkin LS I'll say amen to that Bruce.

[David Schwab]

And, if all the data is in the machine in digital form, what is the clipboard for? Is there a box to be checked that says "Green Light On, Making Humming Sound"?

The same reason why on any TV show, especially sci-fi type shows, the person who goes to do something on a computer does a lot of frantic typing. Unless they are posting to the TV sic-fi computer users forum, that's way more typing than most people will do on a computer for most tasks. Unless you are typing.

The other cliché in ads is a person sitting at the computer, and a person standing over them pointing at the screen. And sometimes one more behind them.

These art directors have no freakin' imagination and don't have a clue.



Speaking of computers... has anyone here been able to update their avatar? It fails every time I try to do it.

[David King]

Way to derail my thread dude!

[David Schwab]

Way to derail my thread dude!

Blame it on Bruce! I'm just commenting on his post.

[Hugh Evans]

First, I apologize for the delay... I've had an unusually busy week. For guitars all of the high end CAD suites are absolute overkill, but thanks to this overkill you can pretty much do anything you could ever possibly need or want. I've never used FEA while designing a guitar, even though I easily could, but I do make heavy use of assemblies.

Since you've already voiced distaste for Rhino, we'll just rule it out. That leaves options such as AutoCAD, SolidWorks, Solid Edge, Inventor, Pro/E, and Catia as the big industry players. Pricing is similar, and CAM plugins to generate cutting paths exist for all of them. While it has improved over the years, it is still my opinion that AutoCAD exists out of force of habit, changing CAD platforms is an extremely costly endeavor for a company. Not only does each seat cost thousands of dollars, they also have to convert old files into the new system, and productivity will generally suffer while employees are being trained. It can work, but for the money I don't consider it logical. Pro/E is another big name, and I have minimal experience with it. It is not extremely common, and that is my main argument against it. SolidWorks and Catia are made by the same company and as a result have a lot in common. Catia is Solidwork's big brother, costing ~3 times as much with otherwise very similar capabilities, Catia is marketed heavily to the automotive and aerospace industries. Given a choice between the two, Solidworks makes much more sense. It has excellent surfacing features, allows for assemblies, and is probably the most common CAD software currently in use. Solid Edge is very similar to SolidWorks, although you may be able to find it for a slightly lower price. You can also get a 30 day trial version. That leaves Inventor, which I have most commonly seen in small companies that are not able to move on to the big stuff yet. It is a nice little piece of software and is very competitively priced. I personally find it somewhat less intuitive than SolidWorks and Solid Edge, but on a bang for your buck level it is difficult to beat.

Testing out as many demos as you can will certainly work to your advantage. Also, although it takes some looking, old versions of SolidWorks show up on auction sites from time to time. You don't need the latest and greatest version to do everything you need. 2010 works just as well as 2012, and the changes are generally stuff you won't use. If you can get a good price or don't mind dropping some serious bucks, you will not regret going with SolidWorks or Solid Edge. If you want to get started relatively cheap and still have a good full-featured product I would encourage Inventor. Much of your experience will carry over between them. I have never been a huge fan of Inventor's interface, but I've been using Solid Edge and SolidWorks for over a decade.

My advice: download the Solid Edge trial and work your way through some tutorials to see how you like it. SolidWorks and Inventor have trial versions as well, but I've always recommended Solid Edge for learning because it has such a great tutorial system.

One final thought. I'm not sure what all you plan to use your CNC system for. Even though my CAD software is all 3D, I make a lot of cuts in 2D. Using 2D I could cut the shape of a guitar body and make the pickup/control cavity/bridge routes all to varying depths. All of that is possible with simple cutting path programs such as V-Carve.

We're off and running now. Obviously, the CAD/CAM software will not make any difference to the router... So I think it should be our main focus.

For the fabrication/assembly process do you own or have access to: a chop saw, drill press, tap & die set, and feel competent using them? If so, most of the parts can be ordered in raw form, instead of a kit, and you will save hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars. Once you reach a certain point, the machine will be sufficiently operational that it can be used to make more parts. For example, the CNC router in my shop made its own dust collection attachment from some scrap acrylic. In the next few weeks it will be used to fabricate a cable carrier from some of the 200+ lbs of pelxiglass sheets we have sitting around. I will be more than happy to share the designs with you. The next time I go out to the shop I will take some pictures so you can see what we have running. For around $1500 I would pit our machine against commercial units at 10X the price.

[Joe Gwinn]

Geomagic (nee, Alibre) - 3D CAD

I would also suggest people consider Geomagic (I don't like the new name either; formerly Alibre).

It's 3D, does assemblies, and the Alibre Personal Edition was available for about $200. I have Alibre 2012 PE, and Geomagic is reportedly the same.

Alibre is strictly Windows. I run it under Windows 7 running in an iMac using Parallels.

I was steered to Alibre by the mechanical engineers at work.

Geomagic - Geomagic Design Personal, 3D CAD for hobby design

[Hugh Evans]

Thanks, Joe! I thought I was forgetting something. Alibre has a fully functional trial as well. The last time I tried any of their products was a couple of years ago, at which time I was unimpressed. But they seem to be pushing harder than any other company to have a fully featured CAD system at very low price points. If you like it, go for it. In the meantime I think I'll test out their latest version and see what I think.

[David King]

So I guess I should start by buying the cheaper knock-off version of 80-20 in 6ft lengths. It seems like the 1.5 x 3" dim is popular for the base structures?
Hugh, what's that stuff called again? Was it http://tslots.com?
http://www.file-vault.us/pdfs/tslots/catalogSec2.pdf
According to the price list, the 1.5" x 3" stuff is $12 a foot.

[Hugh Evans]

Hitachi variable speed drives, automation products, stack lights, stacklights, stack-lights, linear slides, linear bearings, automation4less, pneumatic fittings, electrical relays, electrical switches, terminal blocks, power disconnects, Hiwin bearin sells real 80-20 aluminum extrusions for about $10.50/ft in that size. Also, it's a good idea to order pieces that do not exceed 52" in length when fully packed for shipping. They offer pieces in several size categories and explain the details on the site. Oversize pieces will often cost more to ship than the pieces themselves. This is where taking the time to plan your order and creating a bill of materials will save you money. I recommend checking out CNCRouterParts for linear carriages, drilling guides for 80/20, and other miscellaneous stuff. Combine these two suppliers with McMaster Carr, and you should be able to acquire all of the parts needed to build a complete gantry.

I'm concerned that you may be on the verge of wanting to hurry the process, and could end up wasting time and money by doing so. Have you settled on a design? Is it completely assembled in CAD? Do you know what parts you want to use and why? How about electronics, what stepper driver system will you be using?

None of the questions are horribly difficult, but everything should be thought through. I haven't even heard a budget yet.

[David King]

Well the budget is going to be a moving target. I'll put time and cash into this as they become available. It sounds like I need to get the design rolling in Inventor first. Are the 80-20 extrusions part of some package of CAD objects?

[Hugh Evans]

You can download all of the parts in just about every CAD format imaginable from 80/20® Inc. - The Industrial Erector Set®

It's fine to approach it from that angle, but some companies such as automation4less have free shipping if you place a minimum order of $200. You will need the SolidWorks viewer to see what my design was based on, but it could guide your process along. We're expecting a new speed controller to show up this week that will allow our router to run as low as 5000 RPM (and possibly somewhat lower) which will further prove the design, especially after it is tested on some nice thick billet aluminum. If you want some of the files I downloaded from finelineautomation before they took them down I can either upload them to a server or send them to you via email. The designs are solid, and only required a few minor tweaks that were more of a matter of preference.