Firebird V 2004 - My New Builds Sound Clip

[old guy]

Hi guys.. as promised, here's my bridge and neck builds for my FBV. They replace the stock ceramics that Gibson has been using for a couple decades or so. I forgot to do a commentary as the tune plays but I believe you'll hear the pickup switching from bridge (1st 24 bars), the middle position bridge and neck are the next 24 bars then finally the last 36 bars are neck only.

The amp is my Marshall 2266 Head which is a 50W Vintage Modern series
Cabinet is a Fender Bandmaster 2x12 loaded with Weber speakers cloned to represent JBL D120s.
Firebird V is played wide open (all controls) EXCEPT the first 24 bars of the bridge pickup. Just for poops & giggles, while setting up to record, I tried dropping the tone to '5'. I was mezmurized and convinced to record it. I set it wide open again for middle position and neck.
To me, it sounds like a combination of Eric Clapton's 'Woman Tone' and Bonnie Raitt's Stratocaster.
BTW, I don't have any mics but my vocal mic which is a SHURE SM 58 Beta. So that's what's been doing my recording.

Again, I gotta thank you guys for inspiring me to get involved with this pickup winding stuff ... you ALL rock!
Here it is = https://soundcloud.com/2ndoldguy/fir...04-with-my-own

[big_teee]

Hi guys.. as promised, here's my bridge and neck builds for my FBV. They replace the stock ceramics that Gibson has been using for a couple decades or so. I forgot to do a commentary as the tune plays but I believe you'll hear the pickup switching from bridge (1st 24 bars), the middle position bridge and neck are the next 24 bars then finally the last 36 bars are neck only.

The amp is my Marshall 2266 Head which is a 50W Vintage Modern series
Cabinet is a Fender Bandmaster 2x12 loaded with Weber speakers cloned to represent JBL D120s.
Firebird V is played wide open (all controls) EXCEPT the first 24 bars of the bridge pickup. Just for poops & giggles, while setting up to record, I tried dropping the tone to '5'. I was mezmurized and convinced to record it. I set it wide open again for middle position and neck.
To me, it sounds like a combination of Eric Clapton's 'Woman Tone' and Bonnie Raitt's Stratocaster.
BTW, I don't have any mics but my vocal mic which is a SHURE SM 58 Beta. So that's what's been doing my recording.

Again, I gotta thank you guys for inspiring me to get involved with this pickup winding stuff ... you ALL rock!
Here it is = https://soundcloud.com/2ndoldguy/fir...04-with-my-own

Very nice!
Got any Specs you would like to share for the Firebird pickups you made?

[old guy]

Very nice!
Got any Specs you would like to share for the Firebird pickups you made?

Thanks again T...

Here ya go:

Bridge = 1 pair Mojotone Mini Bobbins (black) with A4 rough cast mags (cut down tight from 2.5" to slots).
+ 42awg Mojotone plain enamel (purple stuff)
+ 28 gauge hookup wire
+ stock Gibson FB baseplate with patent# and cover
+ total dcr 7.27k with north bobbin 3.69k - slightly heavier wind than south bobbin @ 3.58k, NO wax.

Neck = bobbins are the clear stock Gibson mini hums with A2 rough cut mags cut tight to slots from 2.5" stock.
+ 42awg orange plain enamel from Antique Electronics
+ north bobbin 3.78k, south bobbin 2.80k - assembled & ready = 6.57k dcr
+ stock Gibson Firebird baseplate & cover - NO wax.

Reason I have bobbins with different wire is because I ran out of the purple and couldn't wait for the new roll to arrive.

[mcgruff]

Good job I really like the Firebird with the original style pups. Love to get one, one day.

The Firebird baseplate... I think I heard somewhere there's a steel plate under the coils. Is that right?

[Stratz]

Thanks again T...

Here ya go:

Very nice work Mr old guy! Are the pickups the stock form as shown in the pic? Full closed covers, etc?
If so, where did you get the covers if I may ask?

Thanks.

[big_teee]

The Mini is a neat pickup and project.
They can be constructed several different ways.
I had pictures of the one I built a while back, but they got deleted during the last Forum Catastrophe.
So here they are again so we can see how they go together.
I made mine with steel blades and a main magnet on the bottom.
To make it a Regular firebird, just use the magnets in place of the blades, and no main magnet on the bottom.
The firebird steel plate under the magnets, at the baseplate,to tie the poles together, this is optional, try with and without.
These pics show how you would assemble either regular Gibson mini deluxe with screws, or a modified firebird with bobbin blades.

[copperheadroads]

The new Gibson Mini humbuckers thats in all the 70's tributes have no pole screws but use 2 steel blades with a humbucker maget in under ,similar to what Terry hes in the pic

[old guy]

The firebird does need the steel plate under the magnets at the baseplate, to tie the poles together.

Hey Terry ... I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this sentence. The current Firebird pickups - by current I mean the past 25 years or more - have been 2 ceramic magnets sitting vertically in two parallel bobbins with, a 1/4" square wooden shim as spacer (one per opposite end of bobbins), wax, and nothing else. No ferrous plate of any kind was used on FB pickups since Gibson stopped the Alnico 5 and redesigned the pup
up to today.

The ceramic pups of the past 25 years or so ALSO, are a larger cover and baseplate than the 'good' vintage ones.

Vintage FB pups circa '61 or whenever with Alnico 5 mags were a completely different configuration than the Gibson brain child of using ceramics. I don't know if the history of what year this backwards changeover happened. Gibson doesn't seem too clear on that themselves. I can tell you it was sometime shortly after 1976 when the Bi-Centennial FB was released.
I had Seymour Duncan Antiquity 2z for Firebird installed up until 2 weeks ago when I installed these new build babies of mine. SD Antiquitys are a mirror image of the 1st 1960s FB pickups and ... sound like it! If that's what you are going for for your FB then, there's no better pup yet!

Vintage size = 2 9/16" x 1" x 9/16" tall with totally different interior layout.
Current FB with ceramics = 2 3/4" x 1 1/8" x 5/8" tall

When I was about to close this assembly up, I thought about inserting a 1.5" x 3/4" piece of ferrous plate in there to join the 2 mags up. On the test, I did not enjoy the results as a lot of clarity/definition disapeared. So I removed the plate and stuck with what you heard on the sound clip.

There's a guy named 'Dougie' on the LP forum who seems to really know his stuff about FB pups. He's done a lot of experimentation. Mine is just beginning.

[old guy]

Only on the Vintage Alnico 5 bird pickups which were changed sometime after '76.

[old guy]

That looks like a newer FBV to me ... loaded with ceramic mags with the bridge at about 24k and neck at about 16k. That is what I have been using. I pulled mine out of the guitar, completely disassembled them, stripped the bobbins of the 43 gauge they use and waited to build my winder and parts to start making my own.

I then found a 2nd set on Ebay for $100 bucks for the pair and raped them too. So I have 4 Gibson baseplates and covers for my FB projects. The stock Gibson bobins in these pups are smaller than what 'Dougie' turned me on to. Mojotone has black ones that are slightly taller so you can wrap more. They still fit perfectly in the covers and I didn't have to use the maple spacers/shims.

So ... Thanks for your kind words! Stock Gibson baseplates and Covers off my 2004 FBV is what I use. I'm a cover kinda guy.

[old guy]

Oopps ... I forgot about the Tribute bird. Nice instrument BUTT it does not have the same tonal qualities of the 'real' deal. Once again Gibson goes back to some kind of Alnico magnet for these .. never heard one - just read about them.

[big_teee]

The steel plate under two ceramics would probably do nuthin, cause of they are not Ferrous metals.
Also the thin steel plate, is Generally the normal rule of thumb with pickups if possible.
That is something you would want to try with and without.
As far as the way they sound, that is why we experiment, but try not to get hung up with the vintage thing, be sure and think outside the box and experiment.
If they sounded any better than my blade MiniBucker with the A2 Magnet, I probably couldn't stand it!
I usually always lean toward warmer, sounding pickups.
Great Thread, keep experimenting!
T

[old guy]

The steel plate under two ceramics would probably do nuthin, cause of they are not Ferrous metals.
Also the thin steel plate, is Generally the normal rule of thumb with pickups if possible.
That is something you would want to try with and without.
As far as the way they sound, that is why we experiment, but try not to get hung up with the vintage thing, be sure and think outside the box and experiment.
If they sounded any better than my blade MiniBucker with the A2 Magnet, I probably couldn't stand it!
I usually always lean toward warmer, sounding pickups.
Great Thread, keep experimenting!
T

Yupp.. warmer is where it's at. In the FB clip I posted, before I settled on the A4s, I cut up the whole slew of 2.5" bars I had for experimental purposes. I started with the A2s but they seemed to get lost in the mix of that particular tune posted on soundcloud. A5s took me back to too much high end, A3s sounded too much like the A2s BUT the A4s managed to cut through. This, of course is all relative your wind pattern and wind count.
I gotta get some work done around the house this week so, I'm gonna lay low for a bit and let the hair on my wife's back grow a bit longer.
I am gonna assemble my gauss device and start measuring bar mags. I said before I was gonna open up a stock Gibson 57 Classic to measure it's magnet to see where they de-gauss them to. I don't know now ... I could get $80 for that ... the a nice spool of plain enamel ...

[big_teee]

Here's one of my favorite Firebird Songs.
Got that early firbird Jangle.
I dig the unique guitar also.

TRAFFIC Dear Mr Fantasy LIVE 1972 Steve Winwood - YouTube

[old guy]

My Firebird Pup Build BRIDGE CLEAN 'Fantasy' Sound Clip

Here's one of my favorite Firebird Songs.
Got that early firbird Jangle.
I dig the unique guitar also.

TRAFFIC Dear Mr Fantasy LIVE 1972 Steve Winwood - YouTube

Greetings All ... When I posted the slide guitar clip of my FBV pickup build, I should've included what it sounded like NOT overdriven by tubes and paper cones. So, here's a couple measures of Terry's favorite Firebird song - 'Dear Mr. Fantasy' with my non bass playing and non vocalist skills to give something for the bridge pup to work around .. no drums.
This time, I'm at home with a Marshall 100W head - Vintage Modern 2466 and her matching 4x12 cabinet - the 425A. Cab has the Celestion Greenbacks for speakers. Just a small C-hair of reverb on the bridge pickup.

https://soundcloud.com/2ndoldguy/fir...v-pickup-build