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Is there a 'Blackface' type ~15w clone?

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  • Is there a 'Blackface' type ~15w clone?

    Hi folks- Im after info for a build plan. Ive a 5e3 build and frankly hate it- too bassy (tried all to rid it) and Ive only heard its distortion once when the police came round from volume complaints (from the next street!)

    SO, I wonder is there a chimy 'blackface' fixed bias type 12-15w design with a bass and treble (& ideally a MVol too) out there? I get a bit overwhelmed by the no. of fender models to pick exactly what could be a blueprint as it were. thanks for any help, Captain.
    Last edited by The Captain; 07-03-2007, 02:41 PM.

  • #2
    The closest I think would be the Princeton Reverb.

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    • #3
      Yes I did see the Princeton but was bamboozled by the no of Fender's varieties ie some SE 5w, some 2x 6v6, and others with/ without reverb (not needed) and/ or proper tone controls (a must have). Id like to get more info if anyone's knows, a build in this ballpark with bass and treble pots + an MV would be the ticket. thanks

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      • #4
        If your 5E3 is too loud then I wouldn't go for another push pull Fender. Most Princetons put out over 15W in the range that folks typically play them. How about a BF Champ, with MV and a 25K mid control (not keen on the 15K stock mid resistor) with (wait for it...) fixed bias!

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        • #5
          Hi Mark- I thought Id pester some other ampers here! is the Princeton not simply a 5w champ with a tone pot? some Princetons seem to be 2x 6v6s, others SEs, so Im a bit confused there. Basically the wee PT from yourself (508v- 2 red HVs, 5v- 2 rectifier 2ndaries, and iirc 5v- 2 heater wires) Id like to use as a base for another fendery amp. The 5e3 was loud, yes, but Id like to have vol on tap so a 3w champ is a bit pokey I think. I wonder if the princeton reverb having the bass/ trb controls can be made without the reverb and with a MV? thoughts helpful.. Capt

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          • #6
            Tweed Princetons (5?2) amps were SE, cathode biased, 1x 6V6, basically as you say a Champ with a tone pot. 6G2 onwards were push pull, fixed bias, with a cathodyne PI. 6G2 had a tone pot only, later Princetons had Treb & Bass.

            Later BF & SF (treb & bass) non-reverb Princetons don't have much gain, can sound a little sterile, low-ish gain PI and losses in the tone stack. If you built one without tremolo and used the spare 12AX7 triode as a tone stack recovery tube that would help get some gain back.

            That PT has a little more heater capacity that the Princeton rating, but I susect the Princeton PT's are conservatively rated, I'd personally prefer a slightly better heater current rating and more B+ voltage for a push pull Princeton. Hence the Champ suggestion if you need treb & bass. A 5F2A Princeton, despite just having a tone control is also pretty flexible tonewise, definitely Fendery tones available.

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            • #7
              Capt,try the Princeton 5E2.But use a 6l6GC for the power tube and a suitable OT.For your MV just replace the 220k grid resistor on pin 5 of the power tube with a 250k or 500k pot.I built something similar but used a tweed champ as the basis,no tone control,I used a hybrid type bias,it has a 75ohm resistor on the cathode and an adjustable fixed bias circuit as well,used a GZ34 rectifier and tried various NOS 6l6GC's and a 10 Weber speaker.Fender switched to the 2x6V6 in 1961 with the 6G2 circuit and never went back to the SE version of the Princeton,which was just a Champ with a different name.

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              • #8
                Sorry,MWJB I was typing while you posted.

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                • #9
                  Howdy Mr Stokes.. but I need one of these 5E2/ 5F2 types with 2 tone pots after all my trials with the 5e3. I did an MV mod similar on a Vjr, so that bit's easy enough it seems.

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                  • #10
                    So are you saying you want to have more control in the tone stack with a treble and bass control as opposed to the single tone control of the 5E2/5F2?You could just build the Black Face preamp but sub the power section for a single ended output like the Tweed Princeton.So you would use the first stage from the BF into the tone stack/vol control then feed that into the driver stage and out put of the 5E2/5F2.

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                    • #11
                      Terrific.. that sounds a spot-on idea. Id like to know your opinion of my PT for this application Mr.Stokes http://www.torresamps.com/images/trans-25.gif its perhaps not ideal, but, using the site below as a build basis the clips do sound VERY promising and fendery using just a hammond 270FX (270v-0-270v presumably), ie hopefully not too dissimilar to mine.. & fwiw a 125?SE and a 5U4 is it? here: http://jameshadfield.com/Princetone.html

                      Grateful for any input of course, Captain.

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                      • #12
                        That PT will be okay for a 6V6 output,but the 60ma rating on the HV supply will be marginal for a 6L6 type output tube,IMO.The Hammond 125ESE OT will be fine.As for the rectifier,the 5U4 has a 3amp heater draw,although the PT's 5v winding is 3amp,I like to have a little larger safety margin here,but if the 5U4 is all you have it will do,I'd prefer a 5V4.

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                        • #13
                          I was about to say, do as Stokes said, build a BF preamp, and a dual champish power section, two tubes, with one who can be switched out for less volume. It has been done before iirc.

                          Bye.

                          Max.

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                          • #14
                            Hi Stokes,

                            That 60mA rating on the B+ winding is an AC rating, not DC (had the same reservations & checked with mfr). Previously was in a 5E3 type build which even ran 6L6s (100mA draw) with no issues.

                            Cheers, Mark.

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                            • #15
                              Forgive my naiivity, but can someone point out why the BF Princeton's tone config can't be added to the 5e3? say turning the normal vol pot into the bass pot, and so the tone pot as the treble? (or suchlike) ie single channel with bass, treb and vol- as opposed to 2 channel's tone, vol and vol..?

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