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Thread: Eds 1275 copy has whacky wiring!

  1. #1
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    Eds 1275 copy has whacky wiring!

    I got one of those chinese copies of the double necked SG and I gotta say... it's not bad for the money. I'm left handed and not well to do... so this was seriously the only option for me. Gibson doesn't even MAKE left handed ones.

    That said... it is decent... but... there's lots of little issues that irk me. Some were easily fixable (poorly filed nut, bad set up/intonation) typical stuff that's crap on a lot of guitars... But other things I need help with!

    I'm not sure how the wiring on a real one operates but this one basically seems to have.. Volume & Tone for one neck. Volume and Tone for the other neck. Ok... that's cool. On the bottom is a 3 way selector between necks (top/both/bottom) And in the middle past the bridge is a 3 way switch which I presumed and read was a typical toggle selector that operates the usual neck/middle/bridge pickup positions... for both necks. My ears confirmed this.... however....

    In 12 string mode.... the pickup selector works perfectly. I hear three distinct sounds as one would expect. In 6 string mode.... the pickup selector does nothing.... and it sounds as though its hardwired in middle (possibly neck) position. I do not care for this sound for my leads... and this really bugs me. I basically have no way to have bridge only.. for my 6 string stuff... which is what I would want 90% of the time.

    This is my theory as to WHY this happened... They probably used an Epiphone model to copy the wiring... Because the epiphone has a 3rd toggle switch... in between the neck pickups.. so you have a separate pickup toggle for each neck... Which... I think is a brilliant addition... but it does not exist on the Gibson. My guess is that they copied that wiring... but then in order to make it aesthetically appear more like a Gibson... simply omitted that extra toggle... Thus creating the problem I have now.

    My question is... what do I do about it? Any diagrams or explanations would be most appreciated. I'm curious to hear the thoughts of anybody who has an actual one and/or is familiar with them.

    Thank you!

    Julie

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    Here's a few pics of the pickup toggle in question if that helps at all. Any other pics that would help, please let me know! :-)

    Attachment 25045
    Attachment 25046

    You can see how I bottomed out the neck pickup to try and combat the sound... It's still overwhelmingly neck sounding. :-\
    Attachment 25047

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  3. #3
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    The attachments aren't working (for me). A wiring schematic shouldn't be too difficult but it depends on whether or not your guitar has the right switches in place. I'm in the camp that figures it's a copy, probably not real collectible, so add a switch to give each neck independent pickup control. Someone would still need to design a diagram. A short Google search didn't reveal much.

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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    It's definitely a copy. Of that I have no doubt. I specifically commissioned these people to make it for me. (so I could get a lefty and still have both arms and legs)

    Yeah that's what I'm thinking... it seems to me they just copied Epi wiring... and then omited the 6 string pickup selector... Their communication skills are so piss poor, I'm not even going to attempt to ask. I asked them to shave the heel down and they didn't. I asked em if nickel hardware were possible and they damn near cancelled my order over it. lol

    But yeah... in which case, maybe I aughta just do a little drilling and solderiing... and reintroduce that missing pickup selector. I just need to know how exactly I should go about the wiring. :-P

    I dunno why the attachments don't work... I'll try again? Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by voxeylady; 09-08-2013 at 10:16 PM. Reason: Adding an additional photo from another angle.

  5. #5
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Well... After some head scratching and a Lazy Sunday afternoon on MSPaint I'm offering the only solution I could come up with to make your guitar work as intended with only two switches. There are two rubs. One is that the control pots are wired backwards. Many old Gibson models do this for independent pickup control. The drawback is that it grounds the pickup but leaves the amp input floating. This usually means there is some hiss even with the guitar on zero. The other rub is that I had to lift grounds as a means for pickup selection. This means that coils will be "floating". That is, bobbins that are not in use will be connected to the hot lead indirectly via other pickups and components with no termination at the other end. There is the possibility of added emf noise. Since these bobbins are still wired as humbuckers, and hoping the guitar is properly shielded, the noise should be insignificant. I hope. I've floated bobbins for the sake of custom switching before and the results were good. So I remain hopeful. Here's a diagram/schematic. It assumes the guitar is equipped with the standard Gibson style switches.
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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Found it. Here's the schematic for the two switch model made by Gibson. It uses special switches. I haven't been able to find anyone selling them. That doesn't mean they're unobtainable, just that "I" haven't found them.

    http://www.gibson.com/Files/schematics/EDS-1275sch.PDF

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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    Ok this ones gonna take some thinking. X-) Thank you so much!

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    Gosh I'm still a little confused by this. Could you remake that in your easier to understand style.... like with idiot labels for me? lol And the colored lines helped too. Any sort of special parts or wires needed would be good too. :-) thankyouthankyouthankyou. :-D <3 I'm not folloowing where.. sometimes there's one line that splits into two... does that mean I have two wires or is there some kinda special wire thats like a Y that I'm not aware of? lol I'm new to this kind of advanced wiring but I'll get it! :-D

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  9. #9
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    I rearranged the drawing. Your photos show that you have the "other" Gibson switches. The ones that are shorter and have the ground tab on the opposite side of the hot tabs. So I changed the switch drawings. The wiring should be easier to follow. Obviously you don't have a tab on the pickup leads to join three wires together so you'll either need to just twist them together, solder and shrink tube them OR you could screw a small terminal strip into the control cavity so you have a place to join things. Radio Shack sells them. But it's easier to understand where things go now. The diagram shows that I've layed out the controls as they would be on the guitar. The switch and pot tab locations assume you are looking at the BACK of the guitar. This assumes you'll have the pick guard flipped upside down. So it's as if you are looking at the back of the pots and switches.

    The original 1275 schem DOESN'T use the inverse wired pots for independent volume control. That means that with both necks in use, turning one neck all the way down would kill both necks. My design doesn't do this, but it does raise the low signal noise floor a little. Since you'll probably never use both necks at the same time, if you don't like the independent controls you can just swap the two ungrounded tabs on each volume pot to make it more like the stock wiring. But try it my way first
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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    I hope you try this out. If it works well I will have achieved what it seems no one else could. The wiring of a 1275 with two standard switches. Everything I find in searching show three switches other than the stock schematic that requires a special switch. And then there's the independent volume controls that I added. Tre custom All this provided the noise floor is acceptable.

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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    Thank you for taking the time to do this... ya know I think the fact that other schematics I found were not labeled... confused me cause I'm left handed... So the pups are backwards ya know.. and the tone/volumes go counterclockwise to turn up etc. This is nicely labeled. Thank you!

    Actually I do use both necks at the same time frequently. :-P I wanted to make a point of not being like everybody else who uses one. :-P Especially for clean stuff.. It's really cool to have the 6'er on like... 2 volume... and have the 12 neck all the way up... and play on the 6... and hear it magically make its own reverb. It sounds gorgeous! Altho when I'm playing dirty I wish it were just a 2 way switch. :-P

    The necks do interact with each other quite a bit when both on. Like... say I have a loud rucous sound on the 6.. and the 12... indvidually... but then when I put it in middle position the volume tapers a bit... Likewise when I turn the 6 volume down... the 12 gets louder and vice versa.

    I found they had wired both 6 string pickups directly to the volume pot. I simply disconnected the neck pickup and now it screams the way I like! I was getting so flustered and gave up on doing anything better.... But I will try your way when I go to replace all the wiring (its cheap thin wiring and cheap pots... thats all gonna have to be replaced) I'll do everything from scratch. :-)

    Thank you sir!

    <3 Julie

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    While I was at it, I moved the tailpieces to be about 3 inches closer to he neck. I was askin' all over about string brands that would be long enough for the existing tailpiece placement and all I found were D'Addarios which I loathe... and also they only come in 10 gague (for 12 strings) so that was a big no... Now I can put whatever damn strings I want on there. :-P Maybe I'll put some pony stickers or somethin over the old hole... lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q6SoXTW8Uc <---- me messing around. So ya know your efforts are not wasted on a strummy strummer girl. :-P I'll have to make a video of me playin' the 12'er. :-)

    Julie

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  13. #13
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Pony stickers. I need to get some too. Actually, I'm sort of the MTV generation. Being about thirteen when it started. So, in that head, I've always sort of wanted a Hello Kitty guitar At least a pink and white Strat.

    Oh, and my efforts are never wasted. I do this stuff for fun and it just gets better if it actually helps someone.

    EDIT: Nice vid BTW. Being as your asking about a 1275 I didn't take you for Karen Carpenter. On the issue of the output dropping when both necks are in use. That's normal and will continue to happen. If you wanted independent pickup switching for either neck, that will definitely require a third switch. But it would also make for a more ideal wiring with no floating coils.

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    Last edited by Chuck H; 09-12-2013 at 05:30 AM.
    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    I think a third switch is what I'll end up doing. It's a really smart addition I think... that Gibson should incorporate. They moved the tailpiece up quite a bit for practical reasons... so why not the third switch? *shrug*

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    And thanks! :-D Here's my proper music if you're interested. :-)

    https://soundcloud.com/chaos-11/sets/posh-demos

    These are the demos with me playing pretty much everything (except bass and some of the backing vocals) :-)

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    I'll check the new vid in a bit. First, I noticed a flaw in my switching idea. The coils that have the ground lifted aren't actually floating. They DO complete a circuit via other components. This is going to cause strange things to happen. It won't work. Floating pickups CAN work, but in this case there are just too many things going on to cover all the bases with only two switches. You should actually trash everything I've sent so far. Since the original Gibson 1275 switch is not available there are only two options. A rotary switch could be used instead of the original style switch or it needs to be a three switch arrangement. The rotary switch wiring would be tricky because, well because it would. The three switch arrangement does have the advantage of independent pickup selection for either neck. I have to admit defeat on making it work with only two standard switches.

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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    That's ok. :-) Let's go for three then! I can always order one on stewmac or somethin' and the appropriate wires.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    So, where do you want to put the third switch? So I know where to add it in the diagram. It doesn't look like your guitar is routed like the Epi's.

    And the new link isn't working for me. But I've been having trouble with IE lately. I'll try again using Chrome tomorrow. Off to get rested for my day job now.

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    Last edited by Chuck H; 09-12-2013 at 06:49 AM.
    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    May as well be in the Epi location. Looks good to me. I have some monster big drill bits. I can make the accommodations in the body easily.


    http://images.epiphone.com.s3.amazon.../CH_Splash.jpg

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    I mean really... looking at that layout... The natural assumption I think... and what would seem more... orderly... would be that the lone toggle nearest the butt of the guitar would be the neck changer (when in fact its the one under the 6'er neck pup for some reason as it is on actual Gibsons and Epi's) and that the other two toggles by the neck pups were the pickup toggles for each neck.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    I guess it depends on how a player uses the guitar. But your ideal makes sense to me too. That's how I'll lay it out then.

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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    Quote Originally Posted by voxeylady View Post
    I mean really... looking at that layout... The natural assumption I think... and what would seem more... orderly... would be that the lone toggle nearest the butt of the guitar would be the neck changer (when in fact its the one under the 6'er neck pup for some reason as it is on actual Gibsons and Epi's) and that the other two toggles by the neck pups were the pickup toggles for each neck.
    That is where Gibson puts it, although on the Jimmy Page model its reversed with the neck selector under the six string. The reason is that you will find that while playing these things you will constantly be accidentally hitting the switch in between the bridges. Not a huge problem when its a pickup selector, big problem when its a neck selector.

    Anyway, I've got one of these chinese 1275s as well and need to do a complete rewire. The Switchcraft 4 pole switch used by gibson has been purchased off Ebay and is on its way. All other pieces I should already have. Chuck, if you could sketch up an idiotproof version of the Gibson schematic, it would be appreciated. Specifically what wires go to which poles on the two switches.

    Cheers,
    A

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    Quote Originally Posted by andreww View Post
    you will find that while playing these things you will constantly be accidentally hitting the switch in between the bridges. Not a huge problem when its a pickup selector, big problem when its a neck selector.
    A
    Yes... yes I have lol More so sitting down.. not so much standing up but yeah... I do see the wisdom of it now. :-P

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Here you go! I sketched it a while ago but since I need to log on with a different browser to post images I hadn't gotten to it. The switches are still in the stock positions. If anyone wanted to change to the JP wiring they'll need to get creative.
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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    Here you go! I sketched it a while ago but since I need to log on with a different browser to post images I hadn't gotten to it. The switches are still in the stock positions. If anyone wanted to change to the JP wiring they'll need to get creative.
    Thank bud, but that looks to be the Epiphone setup. I'm looking for the gibson setup. I've got this diagram here, but I might need some help figuring out which wire goes where on the actual switches.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andreww View Post
    Thank bud, but that looks to be the Epiphone setup. I'm looking for the gibson setup. I've got this diagram here, but I might need some help figuring out which wire goes where on the actual switches.
    Unless you already have the switches, you aren't likely to find them. The stock Gibson used a custom switch for the pickup control. This was discussed earlier in the thread and I don't have a creative solution for doing the same thing with two stock switches. Apparently no one does since all the copy's have cattywhompus wiring.

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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    This is the switch I bought.

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    NEW Switchcraft 4 Pole Right Angle Toggle Switch FOR Double Neck Guitars | eBay

    I've seen them available from quite a few places but they were always $30 or more with at least another $20 in shipping. This one was reasonable and at least lets me get started on this project.

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    And I'd love to see a picture of your guitar. Interested to see which one you got!

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    Interesting!!!

    I built my own double neck, from 100% mahogany, and the 6 and 12 string necks completely isolated. I have come to realize I now need to add a switch to isolate the necks from each other, so this thread is of great interest to me...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    Here you go! I sketched it a while ago but since I need to log on with a different browser to post images I hadn't gotten to it. The switches are still in the stock positions. If anyone wanted to change to the JP wiring they'll need to get creative.
    Nicely done!!!

    I am trying to figure out where the best place to tap into this dual input system...

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  31. #31
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    With a dual input system you COULD run two cords (cumbersome, but not un-do-able). Set up each as you like and use an A/B box. If the dual cord is a "won't" you could use a single stereo plug and build a custom A/B box. You'd have to deal with the odd gear for that specific guitar. NBD. But then, it's already wired with TWO PLUGS! Use them.?.

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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

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    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

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    Chuck - good suggestion. I use two separate amplifiers EQ'd for each specific neck. However, it seems to me that adding a simple switch between the two inputs would be faster to switch, on songs like Tesla's Love Song and Hotel California....

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  33. #33
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Along the same line as two separate amps, you can still run two separate effects chains with two cords and an A/B box.

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    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

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    The main amp is a DSL40C and the 12 goes through a VS265, which has onboard chorus. Other than DD3 delay and NS2 noise gate, effects are minimal...

    So, if you were to instal a switch in this pickguard, that allowed one to switch between the 6 and 12 string necks without a middle (both necks at once) position, where would be the best place to tap in, taking into consideration the desire to minimize the noise of adding long sections of wire from the "hot" inputs???

    I have, at times, used shielded wiring, pirated from a automobile crankshaft position sensor harness, in an effort to keep noise at bay.

    This guitar is dead quiet at full gain and nearly full volume...I hope to preserve that attribute....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    Along the same line as two separate amps, you can still run two separate effects chains with two cords and an A/B box.
    Where would you suggest tapping into the harness to add a neck selector switch????

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