6L6--- which brand best keeps the fenders sound

[popoahi]

2 stores,, one has 6L6 JJ's and the other Groove tubes.... they aren't the same thing by a different name right???

I don't like to buy stuff on ebay, what are the names and address of some stores that sell tubes for my twin reverb???

mahalo,

popoahi

[popoahi]

aloha Ron,

where do you buy your GE or RCA 6L6's??? what are short bottles? what do they do???
I'll do a search but it's safer to buy where you do if I decide on them..

we talked about JJ's what the opinion on groove tubes??? these 2 R available here in honolulu...

hey guyz,,,no one answered me about attaching the meter on the number 3 tube pin when biasing the tubes??? this is what you do right??
that's what I was told today over here... and which way do you count to get the no#3 pin???
I can't imagine how I can attach my ohm meter even with alligator clips to the #3 pin and still have it connected in the pin holes to get the juice flowing???
I hope it's low voltage,,,, no, I need to ask what is the voltage on the pins? what can I expect or should see so I can set my meter so I don't blow it up or kill myself. ha, ha, man?

this morning fro left to right the no#3 6L6 tube was microphoning a while ago it changed to the 4th tube??? are they all taking turns telling me they want out and to put in a new set??? who made these macintosh 6L6's and are they still available they sound great???

enuff of this I need answers please*

popo

[popoahi]

wow so many choices as we go along TAD, enzo's ruby...
ok so where do I buy these brands??? hope not on ebay or the like?
good that they're screened.

popo

[km6xz]

And do not forget that the acoustic environment trumps all in perceived sound. There are two environments, the one the audience experiences and the one a player does with the speaker in close proximity. They sound entirely different and so a gigging musician has a different priority than one who plays for his own enjoyment alone. This latter one is easiest to impact. To judge, of course you need to reduce variables and one way to do that is get the cabinet up near ear level and on axis. That will produce the most direct versus reflected sound so the character of the speaker and guitar are heard with the fewest changes due to acoustic space. That is what tilt-back arms are for, assuming one stays on their mark. Getting closer and on axis further reduces the big variable of room acoustics at all but the lowest frequencies which are best heard a bit further away and often depends on room dimensions for its efficient coupling to the room or lack of it. Try it, lift the cab so the center of the speaker is on axis of your ear, about 6 feet way. Walk to the side even a couple feet off axis and the change will be more dramatic than any tube change. That is the closest you can get to hearing what you ACTUALLY sound like, which is very different from the normal floor off axis orientation. In the normal way people use their amps, any change in the room, the number of people, whether the door is open or your position in the room makes it sound very different to you.
When a player complains about being too bright or dark, it is almost always the acoustics and shifting position will change it.
If you are on stage, don't trust monitors, they have a different purpose than to demonstrate tone, one of the few useful jobs of a typical manager is to be in the audience as your only representative in the gig for judging how it sounds to the audience. If you think it is too bright, the audience might be turned off by the bottom being too overpowering. That is particularly the case with bass. The audience is in a better position to judge bass level and balance than anyone standing within a few feet of a bass speaker. Getting a 1/2 wavelength out of the low E will give a better indication of just how much low frequency acoustic power there in the room.
You are putting way too much emphasis on tubes, a non-bad set, properly biased will have less impact on your tone than any of the larger issues discussed like drivers, strings/guitar, and acoustics.
Besides, not to initiate a new argument, tone is relative to its appropriateness to the song. If the song is not played and crafted well so it communicates something to them, 3rd parties could not care less about your tone, tubes or anything else perfectly good time that could have been used to polish a song instead of the time waste of discussing tube "sound". Few race drivers accomplish the goal of winning if they waste valuable time focused on comparing and discussing rear view mirrors on forums.....exactly the same level of comparative significance.

[überfuzz]

hey guyz,,,no one answered me about attaching the meter on the number 3 tube pin when biasing the tubes??? this is what you do right??
that's what I was told today over here... and which way do you count to get the no#3 pin???
I can't imagine how I can attach my ohm meter even with alligator clips to the #3 pin and still have it connected in the pin holes to get the juice flowing???
I hope it's low voltage,,,, no, I need to ask what is the voltage on the pins? what can I expect or should see so I can set my meter so I don't blow it up or kill myself. ha, ha, man?

Like I wrote in my post, don't bias your tubes by taking random measurements while the amp is live. If you don't know how to do that you're probably better of, definitely much safer [HIGH VOLTAGE], by just biasing by ear.

What you wanna do is to get a read on the current flowing through the tubes. To do that you need to have a resistor in series so that you can calculate the current by Ohm's law. There is a device called bias probe. I'm quite sure there's a octal version that you can use on your twin reverb. You safest bet is probably to google and read about them. They seem very handy and easy to use.

[Leo_Gnardo]

hey guyz,,,no one answered me about attaching the meter on the number 3 tube pin when biasing the tubes??? this is what you do right??
that's what I was told today over here... and which way do you count to get the no#3 pin???
I can't imagine how I can attach my ohm meter even with alligator clips to the #3 pin and still have it connected in the pin holes to get the juice flowing???
I hope it's low voltage,,,, no, I need to ask what is the voltage on the pins? what can I expect or should see so I can set my meter so I don't blow it up or kill myself. ha, ha, man?

No ha ha ha ha, there's about 500 volts on pin 3 - it CAN kill you. And if you survive, won't be laughing. PLEASE look up bias reading/adjusting techniques, get yourself a bias probe.

"How?" The bias probe uses an octal socket adapter that inserts (typically) a 1.0 ohm 1% resistor in series with pin 8, the cathode. Since the cathode current is equal to the plate current plus screen grid current it's a pretty good indicator of plate current. Screen grid typically is 1/2 to 3% of plate current, so measuring cathode current is close enough for rock n roll. And pin 8 is low voltage, as long as it's connected thru a low resistance to ground.

this morning fro left to right the no#3 6L6 tube was microphoning a while ago it changed to the 4th tube??? are they all taking turns telling me they want out and to put in a new set??? who made these macintosh 6L6's and are they still available they sound great???

Just goes to prove, even though they have "famous brand" labeling, that's no guarantee of no trouble. McIntosh 6L6 that I've seen are General Electric, and Stan says some are RCA. Both excellent brands but still no guarantee of trouble-free operation. These tubes MAY still be available NOS but cost a fortune. Not likely to find them with the McIntosh stamp.

Macintosh is a computer brand.

Most people buying tube sets get 'em from one of the major parts dealers. I'd look at Mojo and Antique.

[ron vogel]

aloha Ron,

where do you buy your GE or RCA 6L6's??? what are short bottles? what do they do???
I'll do a search but it's safer to buy where you do if I decide on them..

we talked about JJ's what the opinion on groove tubes??? these 2 R available here in honolulu...

hey guyz,,,no one answered me about attaching the meter on the number 3 tube pin when biasing the tubes??? this is what you do right??
that's what I was told today over here... and which way do you count to get the no#3 pin???
I can't imagine how I can attach my ohm meter even with alligator clips to the #3 pin and still have it connected in the pin holes to get the juice flowing???
I hope it's low voltage,,,, no, I need to ask what is the voltage on the pins? what can I expect or should see so I can set my meter so I don't blow it up or kill myself. ha, ha, man?

this morning fro left to right the no#3 6L6 tube was microphoning a while ago it changed to the 4th tube??? are they all taking turns telling me they want out and to put in a new set??? who made these macintosh 6L6's and are they still available they sound great???

enuff of this I need answers please*

popo

I won't go into biasing, it sounds like you are pretty green under the hood...and I don't want to be responsible for you poking around in there (and the first time you get zapped with 400+ volts of tube amp you will want to prevent others from the same thing!). I would suggest you find someone local to you that can do biasing. Ask them politely if you can watch the procedure after you have done some research on the subject.

Where do I get tubes? anywhere I can; Garage/estate sales, craigslist, ebay, resellers, old equipment I find.. Not always a very fruitful endevour. But I've been doing it long enough I have a really substantial stash.

6L6 "short bottles" are just a short and fat version of the tube. Many older amps don't have space for taller bottle tubes.

Groove tubes are a brand, they don't actually make tubes. They have had a few different suppliers over the years.

[km6xz]

Groove Tubes have two main consistent characteristics: They are more expensive than other common brands and they are not as well matched. They are a case of building a brand name by hype alone.

Try a set of anything, you might like them. The Twin was designed around one overarching goal, make an amp that projected and sounded loud so its tone curves and speaker choices focused on perceived level and they succeeded. It did sound louder than other amps when it came out, in a day when bands were getting louder on stage in high school "concerts" without PA systems and using larger drum kits. It was designed to be a clean bright sound that did not breakup until very late, something that was desired in the early 60s when breakup was a bad thing. If you like that sound and intend to play clean big and bright, keep the original JBL, Jensen or Oxford speakers it came with. If you want more crunch or overdriven sound, it will require playing very loud or making some mods and changing to lower efficiency speakers. For most players now, the best way to fix the tone for their style is to sell it and get a Pro Reverb or Deluxe Reverb of the same vintage. The biggest single problem with the Twin Reverb was the weight, particularly with the JBL speakers. It is a slug to move around playing gigs, sort of like a SVT, the benefits of the big iron starts to loose its appeal after gigging for a while.

[tedmich]

As stated previously, two decent online tube suppliers are
Antique Electronic Supply
Antique Electronic Supply
and
Mojo Tone
http://www.mojotone.com/

The former (Antique) sells matched sets some even "burned in" ($$!) but I'd pay close attention to return policy as QC of modern tube production is pretty much Nil.

[Audiotexan]

Hey Popoahi!

I replied to your other thread as well, but in addition to the above comments, I think you might be well served by reading *all* of the following page. Los Angeles - My City: Vacuum Tubes Today and NOS

It's from a guy that's been inside the industry for quite a long time, and can provide not only insight into the Groove Tubes stuff, but vintage as well. It might also answer some of the general questions you've been asking as well as differences between newer production tubes, and vintage tubes.

It's also a phenomenal read for tech's and tone junkies alike! As well as providing some KEY insights into the Groove Tubes practices/marketing...

Regards,
Audiotexan

Leonard Rodriguez: Tube smashing machine?

Myles Rose: In the past when things did not meet design spec they were destroyed to assure the well deserved reputation of the company. Today, a very high percentage do not meet design spec but the tubes are sold anyway. So, in the end, today's tube manufacturers also deserve their reputation as well.

[tedmich]

Welcome to the forums Audiotexan! Myles Rose does have a lot of good info, although he's a bit too much of a "mystical audio guru" for my tastes. He's responsible to the Guitar Amplifier Blueprinting WEB site. Ideally everyone would use NOS Mullards and Telefunkins but some of us have limited funds.

[pdf64]

A look over that page indicates that Myles may have been responsible for that hard / soft vacuum assertion (propagated in the GT Tube Amp Book) as being a distinguishing factor between euro power pentodes and usa beam tetrodes.
Pete

[gui_tarzan]

A hundred bucks will get you a matched set of 6L6WGC-STR short bottle TAD from Mojotone or seventy five will get a matched quad of Sovtek 5881WXT from Amplified Parts. I'm partial to Sovtek and Ruby just because I've had good luck with them but it's like asking if you like Ford or Chevy. No matter what, make sure you get a matched set so you don't have bias issues. I fixed a friend's '65 Super Reverb earlier this year and he had a set of the same 5881WXT Sovteks I have and they sounded great. I can't see spending a ton of money on tubes if you're not a pro but that's just me. Unless of course you've got a lot of money to burn, which I don't.

[Audiotexan]

Welcome to the forums Audiotexan! Myles Rose does have a lot of good info, although he's a bit too much of a "mystical audio guru" for my tastes. He's responsible to the Guitar Amplifier Blueprinting WEB site. Ideally everyone would use NOS Mullards and Telefunkins but some of us have limited funds.

Thank you! Nice to finally create an account. Been lurking for way too long. lol

Yeah, when I first stumbled across that blog awhile back, I had to bookmark it.
Definitely agree, on the NOS comment...I can't afford (or at least, won't succumb) to pay NOS prices either.
But I've been fortunate in many respects, as I have two caddy's full of old tubes that I've accumulated over the last 25+ years from yard sales, raiding old amps, buying broken gear, and such. And even scored a perfectly working 539B at a yard sale for $50 15 years ago. *hides before the flames set off*

I got bit by the electronics bug at an early age, and it's not stopped yet. *grins*

Myles does add some 'color' at times, but then again, I appreciate seeing personality shine through, as it also provides relevant perspective for those that can read between the lines. Kinda like forums!
Not to mention allows one to know whether your opinion/tastes are going to be in sync with theirs (in a general sense).