Reasonable range of turns ratio for asymmetric humbucker coils

[elipsey]

Hi,

I would like to hear your informed opinions on what range of turns ratios are commonly used in asymmetric humbucker coils, so that I can choose a reasonable starting point for experimentation. I have heard that mismatches from around %2 - 10% are not uncommon. I would therefore be inclined to choose a 4 percent mismatch as a starting point, such that one bobbin would have 5000 turns and the other 5200, for example. I would like the resulting pickup to sound noticeably, but subtly, more bright. The possibility of moderately reduced noise rejection does not concern me.

Are any of you privy to facts or rumors about the offsets used by any particular pickup manufacturers?

Does somewhere between %2 and %10 sound like a reasonable starting point?

Cheers

[big_teee]

200 ohms, sounds OK.
The Next question, is where do you want to put it.
The purpose of 2 coils is to buck Hum.
Equal coils will buck hum more than a pickup with a large offset between the two coils.
I usually make my neck pickup with equal coils.
I make the bridge pickup with a few percent offset more on the slug coil.
I suggest lots of Trial and error.
Others please jump in!
T

[CheopisIV]

I second big_teee on the trial and error part. When you get winding you'll find your own pattern and coil geometry will more heavily influence your sound as well as which coil is heavier. I could tell you my exact numbers and your pickup will likely sound very different.

You won't find any manufacturers sharing their offsets, TPL, tension, pattern, and other variables (magnet charges, metals alloys, spacing) as that's considered proprietary information much like the Colonel's Secret Sauce!

Reasonable range is something completely subjective.

[LtKojak]

I would like to hear your informed opinions on what range of turns ratios are commonly used in asymmetric humbucker coils, so that I can choose a reasonable starting point for experimentation.

Are you winding by hand or you have an auto-traverse winding machine?

[elipsey]

Thanks, I'll try a couple in that range then.

What's reasonable may be subjective, but I believe that if pressed with some examples you would admit to some boundary on reasonableness. For example, what if I proposed winding a pair of pickups with coil offsets of 1 turn, and %10,000?

[elipsey]

By hand at the moment; working on the machine part

[big_teee]

You can make some fine humbuckers by hand.
2-5% offset sounds like a good ballpark figure.
I did some extreme offsets, but they don't humbuck as well as smaller offsets.
I welcome discussion on which coil offset effects tone in what way?
Example for a Bridge Pickup?
Do You prefer the most turns on the screw coil or the slug coil?
Does more turns on the screw coil make it brighter, and better harmonics?
Does more turns on the slug coil, promote a darker tone, and make it less bright and tinny?
I welcome your opinion and input. Discuss away!
Keep Rockin,
T

[LtKojak]

By hand at the moment; working on the machine part

If it's so, you're just adding another variable to an equation made of many random variables which you don't have the necessary control over.

Winding by hand, it's humanly impossible to exactly replicate the same tension, coil-winding pattern and TPL, you're already "mismatching" the coils your HBs are made of.

In my case, I personally prefer the tone of two perfectly matched coils in a HB; which given the "right amount" of turns, winding pattern and tension, plus the "right" magnet grade, with the "right" magnetic charge in Gauss, give the highest articulation, specially in the neck position.

The day you'll get a CNC winder and find the "right" formula, then you can start to "mismatch", starting the "trial-and-error" aka R&D, going with 0.5% intervals up to 10%, starting with underwinding the screw coil, then the slug coil.

HTH,

[big_teee]

You'll find very few CNC machies used by beginners, and hobbyists.
There are exceptions to this, sure.
Hand winders do mismatched coils all the time.
IMO it is not that difficult to wind consistent coils, hand guided.
I too like mid to lower equally wound coils on neck humbucker pickups.
If you do a offset on a neck bucker, IMO reducing or less wire on the screw coil makes it brighter.
More wire on the screw coil, makes it darker, all things kept equal!
Most of the muddiness that comes with neck humbuckers, can be eased by less Turns of wire.
So If you hand wind and wind consistently, by all means experiment.
That's what we do here, and if you do, please list the results!
GL,
T

[kayakerca]

Hi,

I would like to hear your informed opinions on what range of turns ratios are commonly used in asymmetric humbucker coils, so that I can choose a reasonable starting point for experimentation. I have heard that mismatches from around %2 - 10% are not uncommon. I would therefore be inclined to choose a 4 percent mismatch as a starting point, such that one bobbin would have 5000 turns and the other 5200, for example. I would like the resulting pickup to sound noticeably, but subtly, more bright. The possibility of moderately reduced noise rejection does not concern me.

Are any of you privy to facts or rumors about the offsets used by any particular pickup manufacturers?

Does somewhere between %2 and %10 sound like a reasonable starting point?

Cheers

I'm with you on this elipsey, and will have to experiment and research more as well as I don't get what works and what doesn't and why.

This clip below has a 3,000Ω spread between the slug and screw sides (now the hot side is 43 and the other 42, but still a 3,000Ω spread. . .).

11.2K "BachToRock" style bridge humbucker with 3,000Ω spread in the coils

This clip has 150Ω spread.

7.7k lower output neck humbucker with 150Ω spread in the coils

They are very different humbuckers (and different playing styles), but to me they both produce nice tone to my ear.

[big_teee]

It is the difference in turns that would effect Hum.
Two equal coils in turns, one 42, and one 43, should cancel hum correctly.
They will be different in DCR, Tonally I suspect it would sound different too.
Great Discussion!

[kayakerca]

It is the difference in turns that would effect Hum.
Two equal coils in turns, one 42, and one 43, should cancel hum correctly.
They will be different in DCR, Tonally I suspect it would sound different too.
Great Discussion!

I'll have to see if I can figure out a reasonable estimate of the amount (weight) of 42 vs 43 on those coils to see how comparable they are in that measurement. There are ~ 1,600 more turns on the 43 side than the 42. All very cool.

[LtKojak]

I'll have to see if I can figure out a reasonable estimate of the amount (weight) of 42 vs 43 on those coils to see how comparable they are in that measurement. There are ~ 1,600 more turns on the 43 side than the 42. All very cool.

FWIW, I've made a "boutique conversion" of an Epi Alnico Classic Pro" set, from Epi's new "Probucker" series, that came with my ES-339. That means I've changed the screws, slugs and keeper bar with good quality ones, 1018 steel for the keeper bar and slugs, 1022 for the screws. The baseplate, A2 magnet and nickel-plated cover were keepers, they were made with good materials (a big surprise for me) real 18% nickelsilver... well that's what my metallurgist told me.

The neck p'up is 7.8K with a small 120 ohms difference, being the slug coil the hottest. I chose an A3 neck / UnOriented A5 bridge mag set for it, and I could swear the tone produced by that one of yours was from my own!

HTH,

[rjb]

That means I've changed the screws, slugs and keeper bar with good quality ones, 1018 steel for the keeper bar and slugs...

Obviously, I've still got a lot to learn....
I thought 1018 was the cheapest/most common cold-rolled steel available. What were the originals?

[LtKojak]

Obviously, I've still got a lot to learn....
I thought 1018 was the cheapest/most common cold-rolled steel available. What were the originals?

The screws and slugs that came with the p'ups were so dull and lifeless that I don't even think they have a cold rolled steel grade denomination.

However, if you play Jazz, those p'ups are useable in their stock form, although they have no dynamics and/or response to picking whatsoever; I call'em the "Hollabacks".