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Thread: Eden NC-250 / NC-320

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    Eden NC-250 / NC-320

    Hey guys, is there a schematic anywhere for an EDEN NC-250 or NC-320?

    I know there's a thread from 18 months ago ( http://music-electronics-forum.com/t33293/ ) that came up without a schematic, but I figure it was worth it to ask again.

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    Supporting Member Jazz P Bass's Avatar
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    Eden NC-250 Schematic

    Mozwell was kind enough to post the file at Electrotanya.com.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazz P Bass View Post
    Mozwell was kind enough to post the file at Electrotanya.com.
    Thanks Jazz, unfortunately that schematic doesn't match this amp. The power supply is pretty similar though. Looks like the zener diode for the -15 supply in this amp is blown and shorted. Will replace it and hopefully nothing else is wrong with it, everything looks good otherwise.

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    Interesting amp.

    Straight from the Lateral Mosfet era, I guess that later versions went Bipolar (or went all the way and adapted to Hexfets).

    What transistors do you actually have there?

    A couple gut shots would be good too, might help others in the future.

    In case you need troubleshooting it, at least in this version it uses grounded sources, literally, and speaker Hot comes from the junction of the large filter caps, which is NOT grounded.

    I mention it because without signal everything looks fine ... but you start driving it and get weird unexplainable readings

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    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    Here's the proper schematic: NC320 SCH final.pdf

    And a few pictures:
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    Quote Originally Posted by J M Fahey View Post
    Interesting amp.

    Straight from the Lateral Mosfet era, I guess that later versions went Bipolar (or went all the way and adapted to Hexfets).

    What transistors do you actually have there?

    A couple gut shots would be good too, might help others in the future.

    In case you need troubleshooting it, at least in this version it uses grounded sources, literally, and speaker Hot comes from the junction of the large filter caps, which is NOT grounded.

    I mention it because without signal everything looks fine ... but you start driving it and get weird unexplainable readings

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    Thanks for the schematic and pictures.

    I just bought an NC250 15” combo, where the speaker had been replaced and the amp serviced.

    The on/off switch was always illuminated when on or off, and I was looking for a schematic to determine if it was wired correctly.

    The schematic itself wasn’t that helpful, as the switch in my amp has 4 pins, however by looking at the pictures, I could see that the orange and black wires were on the opposite side, with the black on top. I swapped mine around, but didn’t notice which white wire was which, as there were two.
    I turned it on and it worked as I would have imagined, with the power light only being illuminated in the on position.

    One more thing I noticed is that there is a yellow wire from the power pcb, which connects to the power cable socket, right next to the brown wire.
    On my amp this wasn’t connected, so I plugged it in.
    I have no idea about amp wiring, and probably shouldn’t have played around with it, but it seems to have worked so far.

    Can anyone confirm that the two white wires to switch won’t do any damage if in the wrong position? One had a red dot drawn on it in pen.

    I may have just got them right by mistake, or perhaps it doesn’t matter, as long as they are on the outside two pins of the switch?

    My other concern, was the yellow wire which was disconnected when I opened the amp. I plugged it back in, with only the fact that I saw it that way in the picture. I wouldn’t imagine that it just came loose with the vibration of the caster wheels when pushing the combo across pavers and rough ground. Is there any reason that this yellow wire to the power board, labeled AC something, would be disconnected? It seemed to work ok with it disconnected, when I first bought it.

    Any help would be appreciated.

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    Supporting Member nevetslab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim81 View Post
    Thanks for the schematic and pictures.

    I just bought an NC250 15” combo, where the speaker had been replaced and the amp serviced.

    The on/off switch was always illuminated when on or off, and I was looking for a schematic to determine if it was wired correctly.

    The schematic itself wasn’t that helpful, as the switch in my amp has 4 pins, however by looking at the pictures, I could see that the orange and black wires were on the opposite side, with the black on top. I swapped mine around, but didn’t notice which white wire was which, as there were two.
    I turned it on and it worked as I would have imagined, with the power light only being illuminated in the on position.

    One more thing I noticed is that there is a yellow wire from the power pcb, which connects to the power cable socket, right next to the brown wire.
    On my amp this wasn’t connected, so I plugged it in.
    I have no idea about amp wiring, and probably shouldn’t have played around with it, but it seems to have worked so far.

    Can anyone confirm that the two white wires to switch won’t do any damage if in the wrong position? One had a red dot drawn on it in pen.

    I may have just got them right by mistake, or perhaps it doesn’t matter, as long as they are on the outside two pins of the switch?

    My other concern, was the yellow wire which was disconnected when I opened the amp. I plugged it back in, with only the fact that I saw it that way in the picture. I wouldn’t imagine that it just came loose with the vibration of the caster wheels when pushing the combo across pavers and rough ground. Is there any reason that this yellow wire to the power board, labeled AC something, would be disconnected? It seemed to work ok with it disconnected, when I first bought it.

    Any help would be appreciated.
    I have an Eden Nemesis 320 410 Combo amp here in the shop. It will be a few days before I get a chance to pull the amp assembly from it to have a look, though I did find a related schematic to it (perhaps). I've attached that. Primary wiring on each looks to be 240V as opposed to 120V.

    eden nemesis RS700 (NA650) Sch.pdf

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    Last edited by nevetslab; 03-09-2020 at 10:32 PM.
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    Thanks nevetslab, that looks more like what is happening with my amps power switch.

    I’ll take the back off the amp tonight to take some photos, and try to identify which of the two white wires go where, and what the yellow wire was.

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    If your power switch now looks like the one in the picture, which of the whites is on top does not matter.

    The NC250 you have has a complicated AC receptacle. It is also functioning as the fuse holder and the voltage selector (fuse holder flips upside down). You want to make sure you get it right.

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    I took the cover off, and photographed the connections. I can’t seem to be able to upload any, because it says even one, exceeds the quota for file size.
    The two white wires are now identified, one of which goes to AC-N on the power pcb, and the other goes to the power plug input socket. And as the black wire from the socket, is next to the white wire from the socket, I plugged those in on the switch together too.
    The orange wire is in line with the white wire from AC-N.
    I wish there was a way to upload photos, with a reduced quality, cause it makes sense if you see the images.
    I’ll try to reduce the size and post them.

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Those pics in post #11 are your amp? Earlier you said it was an NC250, it's not? You are on 240V ?

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    Supporting Member nevetslab's Avatar
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    Nemesis NC320 Power Panel, 120V wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by nevetslab View Post
    I have an Eden Nemesis 320 410 Combo amp here in the shop. eden nemesis RS700 (NA650) Sch.pdf
    I've opened up this NC320 Power Panel, after getting a couple outside shots. This one IS wired for 120VAC.

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    I think he's got it wired up right, but you can see the labelling on your fuse holder at the IEC socket. If you turn it upside down you change the voltage.
    I can't see the labelling on his. My concern is if the holder is the wrong way and you connect to 240V, the amp will blow up.

    Here's another pic of the IEC socket/voltage selector:
    https://images.reverb.com/image/uplo...c4vjvghfmv.jpg

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    Nevetslab,
    can you confirm that the white wire from the socket, is horizontally aligned with the black wire from the socket?

    g1,
    The pictures in post #11 is my amp.
    My amp is a NC250 250 watt amp, but as the Eden naming system is apparently confusing, my 250 watt combo amp with 1x 15” speaker, is also called a NC115 when in a combo, like a NC210 has 2x 10” speakers.
    But by that logic, what is an NC320 combo, when combined with either a 1x 15”, or 2x 10” speaker ccab?
    Unless I have that aspect of the naming wrong, I believe my amp is rated for 250 watt output.

    To all,
    Which also brings me to the topic of series/parallel wiring of the extension jack.
    As far as I can gather, my amps extension jack is wired in series, while it is interally rated at 8 ohms.
    If I was to add an 8 ohm extension cab, my amp would not me providing the 250 watts @ 4 ohms, as labeled, but 250 watts @ 16 ohms.
    (I’m no amp guru remember, so bear with me if I’m wrong).
    I have read that eden combos are wired in series to prevent people overloading the amp with extention speakers, when the internal load is governed my two speakers; whereas, with 1 interernal speaker that won’t happen.
    8 ohms and 8 ohms is 4 ohms, 4 and 4 is 2, but 8 and 4 is 5.6??
    I’m straying into the realms of bullshitting a bit here, about stuff, I admit I don’t really know; but basically I am concidering, adding a series parallel switch, as the owner of this amp, (before the last one), drilled a hole in the enclosure, and added an input for an extension amp.
    When the last owner blew the speaker, and got it fixed, (by the guy who rewired the switch wrong, so the light was on when switched off, but still plugged in), it was recommended to take it out.
    So now there is a poorly drilled hole in the front of my amp, which I would like to fill with something useful.
    Is that easy to do?
    I have wired up over 10 guitars, (an outstanding claim for anyone’s resume, I know), and am familiar with series/ parallel switches for pickups; so I can work that part out myself, but are there any other considerations to take into account?

    My final question, (although not literal, as potentially there will be more questions, whilst enjoying correspondence with amp masters), is regarding the yellow wire to to socket that was originally disconnected in my amp when I opened it up; what is the consequence of having it disconnected?
    I would suspect that it just rattled loose, as a result of vibration though the caster wheels running over pavers and many bumps on the ground, in arid Australia. (Where I live, hence the 240v amp.)
    So, I’m assuming it should be plugged in, but what would have happened if I didn’t want to correct the on/off switch problem, and it was left unplugged, and unoticed?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Supporting Member nevetslab's Avatar
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    Line Voltage Select done with Fuse Holder

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim81 View Post
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    The IEC Power Connector/Fuse module on your rear panel is of the type that also functions as the AC Mains Voltage Select. The AC Mains wiring on both your amp and mine are the same on that IEC/Fuse module, as well as the AC Mains Switch. To change to 120VAC, you pop it out and rotate it, while changing the Fuse Value. T4A GMC size (5 x 20mm) would be what you'd want. Chances are there is a T2A fuse installed.

    I just re-read your last post, and see you are in a 240V country (Australia), so your amp IS wired correctly for 240V, based on the Selection mark on the voltage rating to the left of the Mains connector/fuse holder. I can confirm the WHT wire (AC Mains N terminal) is adjacent to the BLK wire (AC Mains L terminal) on the Mains/Fuse module. Your YEL wire which was unplugged from the AC Mains/Fuse module IS connected correctly, so your guess was correct.

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    Eden 4012.038_na320.pdf

    On page 7 in the owner's manual I've attached (NC320 Bass Amp, but will suffice for your NC250 regarding AC Mains Fusing & Voltage Selection), the instructions on selecting Line Voltage are shown.

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    Last edited by nevetslab; 03-13-2020 at 10:30 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim81 View Post
    Nevetslab,
    can you confirm that the white wire from the socket, is horizontally aligned with the black wire from the socket?

    g1,
    The pictures in post #11 is my amp.
    My amp is a NC250 250 watt amp, but as the Eden naming system is apparently confusing, my 250 watt combo amp with 1x 15” speaker, is also called a NC115 when in a combo, like a NC210 has 2x 10” speakers.
    But by that logic, what is an NC320 combo, when combined with either a 1x 15”, or 2x 10” speaker ccab?
    Unless I have that aspect of the naming wrong, I believe my amp is rated for 250 watt output.

    To all,
    Which also brings me to the topic of series/parallel wiring of the extension jack.
    As far as I can gather, my amps extension jack is wired in series, while it is interally rated at 8 ohms.
    If I was to add an 8 ohm extension cab, my amp would not me providing the 250 watts @ 4 ohms, as labeled, but 250 watts @ 16 ohms.
    (I’m no amp guru remember, so bear with me if I’m wrong).
    I have read that eden combos are wired in series to prevent people overloading the amp with extention speakers, when the internal load is governed my two speakers; whereas, with 1 interernal speaker that won’t happen.
    8 ohms and 8 ohms is 4 ohms, 4 and 4 is 2, but 8 and 4 is 5.6??
    I’m straying into the realms of bullshitting a bit here, about stuff, I admit I don’t really know; but basically I am concidering, adding a series parallel switch, as the owner of this amp, (before the last one), drilled a hole in the enclosure, and added an input for an extension amp.
    When the last owner blew the speaker, and got it fixed, (by the guy who rewired the switch wrong, so the light was on when switched off, but still plugged in), it was recommended to take it out.
    So now there is a poorly drilled hole in the front of my amp, which I would like to fill with something useful.
    Is that easy to do?
    I have wired up over 10 guitars, (an outstanding claim for anyone’s resume, I know), and am familiar with series/ parallel switches for pickups; so I can work that part out myself, but are there any other considerations to take into account?

    My final question, (although not literal, as potentially there will be more questions, whilst enjoying correspondence with amp masters), is regarding the yellow wire to to socket that was originally disconnected in my amp when I opened it up; what is the consequence of having it disconnected?
    I would suspect that it just rattled loose, as a result of vibration though the caster wheels running over pavers and many bumps on the ground, in arid Australia. (Where I live, hence the 240v amp.)
    So, I’m assuming it should be plugged in, but what would have happened if I didn’t want to correct the on/off switch problem, and it was left unplugged, and unoticed?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    From Juan Fahey's reply back in 2014: " Interesting amp.

    Straight from the Lateral Mosfet era, I guess that later versions went Bipolar (or went all the way and adapted to Hexfets).

    What transistors do you actually have there?

    A couple gut shots would be good too, might help others in the future.

    In case you need troubleshooting it, at least in this version it uses grounded sources, literally, and speaker Hot comes from the junction of the large filter caps, which is NOT grounded"
    .

    The internal speaker is sitting between the Power Xfmr's Center Tap and Ground, to which the Current Output from the FET Output stage is connected. The External Speaker Jack placed that in series with the internal speaker, NOT in parallel (which would lower the overall load impedance). I forgot to measure the DCR of the four 10" woofers of my cabinet when I had removed the power amp panel to photograph. I'm guessing (without pulling the panel again to check) that the four 10's are all 8 ohm, wired series-parallel, and would be a 200 W amp.

    NC320 SCH final.pdf

    If indeed that is true, switching the Speaker On/Off to Off would also switch off what gets plugged into the Ext Spkr jack. This IS a strange amp.

    I zoomed in on the photo I had taken of the 3-pair of Output devices on the heat sink, and they ARE 2SK1058 N-Ch MosFET's and 2SJ162 P-CH MosFET's as called out on the NC320 Schematic which was provided by waspclothes back in 2014.

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    Last edited by nevetslab; 03-13-2020 at 10:28 PM.
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  18. #18
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    As far as I know, this amp has a 4 ohm internal speaker and does full power as it sits. That is why the ext.spkr. jack is in series, the amp can not drive lower than 4 ohms.
    So when you add an external spkr., the amp delivers a bit less power, but you get the benefit of more speaker area.

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    I have read a number of forums claiming that the extension socket, which is labeled 250 watts @ 4ohms; is a lie, because the internal load is 8 ohms and, as the extension cab is wired in series, the amp sees 16 ohms.
    I took the grille off today, to take out the speaker to gather information to support this claim, and as result, had to stuff around replacing speaker mounting screws that snapped when taking out the main speaker.
    I tell you, who ever installed the new speaker, was a dodgy fellow. The screws had two different thread spacings, and some were very tight in the holes, also because the upgraded non original speaker had different hole positions to the original, there were new poorly aligned holes, haphazardly drilled, with in some locations, divits evedencing two previous misaligned attempts to drill a hole.
    Anyway, the 15” speaker is FANE 300w 8 ohm, and the original tweeter is 8 ohm also.

    The resistance measured with with the amp removed, at the connection outside the cab, was 7.5 ohm.
    The the FANE 15” unplugged by itself was 8.1 ohms.
    The tweeter unplugged by itself was 9.6 ohms.
    With the amp connected, and the 15” unplugged; the tweeter, (measured at the crossover pcb), was 4.1 ohms.
    And finally, with it all back together, a cable plugged into the extension input, measured 14.2 ohms.
    I’m not sure if that information is helpful in justification to add a series/parallel switch or not, but it seems to me that the internal load, at least, is 8 ohm.
    Attached are some pictures.
    Click image for larger version. 

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