Half scatter.

[12xu]

Hey guys...first post, long time lurker.

Just wondering if anyone else has messed around with half scatter winding. I've been messing around with it a little.

I've been doing the first 3500 or so turns with an auto traverse...right around 100tpl....then finishing the last 1500 turns with a pretty wide scatter, maybe 50 to 70 tpl...doing matched coils..5000 bridge, 4700 neck.


Just wondering if anyone has had good results or is it not enough to matter.

I'm trying to get close to a paf with a little bit more jangle to the top end...all else being equal. Well, maybe a bit less tension than I normally wind with.

just messing around on a Sunday...experimenting.

I'm wondering if my switchover point is in the right place. So I guess my question is, if you've tried this, how many winds in did you switch?...and what were the results.

[big_teee]

Welcome to the Forum.
No I haven't, but rather than getting caught up in all of that?
Have you experimented & tried, all the other variables and options in winding pickups?
1.Winding===Number of turns, TPL, Tension
2.Wire Size & Type
3.Magnet Type, and Gauss
4.Base plate material
5.Metal used in screws and Keepers
6.With or without Covers
7. Cover metal and plating type
8. thickness of cover.
9. Potted or Uunpotted
10. ETC.
Winding TPL & Tension are important but just a couple of the many variables, that effect the overall Tone!
GL,
T

[mr fab]

i have done something similar in single coils, the only difference being that i have a pretty wide scatter on the 1st half, (lower tpl, closer to the magnets) and a very tight wind on the second half. compared to the same pickup wound with low tpl all the way through, appreciably more focussed sound and more upper mids

have never tried on a HB but would expect similar results.

[12xu]

I have indeed.

I think my question is geared more towards the winding variable than the materials variable.

I was just experimenting with wind patterns....not so much using it to get to an end result. I can get to where I want tonally with materials selection. I hear a difference with linear vs scatter vs trying to get really linear by hand.....I was just wondering what happens if you try both on the same coil. Doing one coil each way didn't seem like anything special. I've never heard of anyone doing that...maybe there's a reason.

It was one of those "I wonder what happens if" moments. My theory was doing the last 25% might impart some of the qualities of scatter winding on a linear wound bucker. I was also keeping the winds in the classic range, thinking that would let the differences come through more.

I've got a few builds done up, gonna try to get loud tomorrow during the day and see what the results are.

If you wanted to try my experiment to see for yourself....here's what I did.


42 PE
Mojo Bobbins and baseplate.
rough cast A5..charged to around 650.
first 3500 or so turns, linear wound....last 1500 hand wound.
I think I used the poles and slugs from Philadelphia luthiers....I wanna say they're 1018, I forget, it was the first bag I grabbed from the drawer, I'll double check.
Each coil ended up nearly identical in DCR...ended up at 7.1k total...but it was rather cold in the room, not that I'm a stickler for that stuff.


For the neck..mostly the same.
I did 3500 linear, 1200 by hand.
Using A4 and the Microfasteners poles....I like them in neck builds, not too sure about bridges. Mostly used them for p90's so far....going by the screwdriver chewing them up, they're quite soft.
The coils were 3.40k and 3.41k ohms.

The dcr is probably on the low side of things...but, that's what I was shooting for.


I did a 2nd set, but I haven't finished wiring them up....pretty much identical coils as the 1st set, but with an extra 500 turns on each pickup.

[12xu]

i have done something similar in single coils, the only difference being that i have a pretty wide scatter on the 1st half, (lower tpl, closer to the magnets) and a very tight wind on the second half. compared to the same pickup wound with low tpl all the way through, appreciably more focussed sound and more upper mids

have never tried on a HB but would expect similar results.

So there was a noticeable difference?...good to hear.

If I can get a top end I like, I may call it a success....might be worth testing more "switchover" points..doing less turns by hand.

It's hard not go right to a hotter wind, the guitar I'm putting these in a rather heavy les paul...no weight relief, hard on the back. Really resonant unplugged, but really even, not too bright or thuddy. Seemed like a good candidate for A5.

[mr fab]

yes, i have found the inner winds to make the biggest difference, hence the lower tpl closer to the magnet, then the higher tpl outside that...... my reasoning being the inners set the tone, the outers help to get the output to the point i want it. as you well know, the outer winds are further away from the magnets and also have a larger circumference, so going to a higher tpl, allows to get the pickup finished to the desired number of winds in the most efficient way and keeping the character of the lower tpl inner wind to a large degree.

i haven't experimented further than this, but have made these for clients who were very happy with the result.

[12xu]

Thanks...that's helpful.

I was largely trying to keep the linear thing happening....basically the opposite recipe of what it sounds like you were going for....6 of 1 half dozen of the other, singles vs doubles.

[big_teee]

Thanks for all the extra info.
I hand wind, and I do my varying with total turns.
I like less than 5000 on the neck and more on the bridge.
Never did like a real bright bridge bucker.
There, I thought if I started, others would jump in!
GL,
T

[mr fab]

another interesting point. i wound a tele bridge pickup once and liked the tone i got. then i decided to add a second tap to it, like the schecters of old. after adding the tap to the same pickup, over the original wind, i found the original wind darker sounding than before. seemed to me at the time that adding the extra tapped wind also affected the tone in a similar way that shielding windings with copper foil does.

after a few revisions a made the inner tap brighter to compensate for the loss of highs when the additional outer tap was added. worked well, but also spawned the idea of the 50/50 tpl wind discussed above.

[jack briggs]

another interesting point. i wound a tele bridge pickup once and liked the tone i got. then i decided to add a second tap to it, like the schecters of old. after adding the tap to the same pickup, over the original wind, i found the original wind darker sounding than before. seemed to me at the time that adding the extra tapped wind also affected the tone in a similar way that shielding windings with copper foil does.

after a few revisions a made the inner tap brighter to compensate for the loss of highs when the additional outer tap was added. worked well, but also spawned the idea of the 50/50 tpl wind discussed above.

seems to me that adding extra windings over the existing ones would bump the inductance up even on the old tap.

[12xu]

Well...I got them in the guitar.

So far, I really like them....and they're different enough than what I get from all linear or scatter.

Enough to venture further down the rabbit hole....for myself anyways. Some guys might think this is kind of a silly experiment.

If I had to guess...I should do less handwinding on the bridge and more handwinding on the neck....maybe I need to figure out a ratio and try it on both positions.


Time to stock up on strings.

[big_teee]

I think just the opposite.
machine wind on the neck, with more tpl, so you have smaller brighter sounding coils.
Especially if you put all 5000 turns on.
less TPL on the bridge to fatten it up.
Experiment and get back to us.
T

[12xu]

I'll try that route too.

The bridge, I went 5k turns, 4700 on the neck.

I'll probably stick to one magnet type and try to get them close to the same charge.


Been playing them since my last post.

[mr fab]

hi jack. the inductance did not change as i was still using the same inner tap. this pickup ended up with two coils in series....the cool tap, being the original wind, and the hot tap being the original and the second in series. its like a power transformer with multiple taps for various secondary taps for different voltage outputs.

the inductance of the original wind did not change at all

[Jason Rodgers]

I'll try that route too.

The bridge, I went 5k turns, 4700 on the neck.

I'll probably stick to one magnet type and try to get them close to the same charge.


Been playing them since my last post.

Waking up an old thread. Anything to report?