Getting a woody sound from a humbucker

[GunbarrelCustom]

I know this may be edging too close to the secret sauce area of info, but I'm going to ask anyway.

I'm looking for that Dicky Betts goldtop "woody" sound and my research, to my great surprise, said that both of his pickups were in the mid 7's (k Ohms). Will more symmetric bobbin winding get that woody tone, or is a greater offset needed?

My first guess was he had pickups closer to 8k Ohms with a wide offset. But, I'm now guessing he rolls the tone to 5 or so to hit his sound. I am in the final finishing stages of 2 Les Paul's that take humbuckers, but I do not have any guitar, right now, to test humbuckers in. I also have an alder&maple, no F hole, Tele thin line that will have humbuckers though I will need to use 52mm spacing at the bridge.

Thanks!

[Richard]

I don't know anything about designing pickups but is there a particular song that features this sound?

[big_teee]

I read one time, when Dickey had the gold top guitar repaired and repainted, he put Seymour Duncan Seth Lover Pickups in it.
SH-55, 7.2k Neck, and 8.1k bridge.
Before that he had some PAFs, not sure of the wind on those.
Also in Early Allman bros. he played a SG, and a Red ES-345 a lot.
Another part of Dickey's sound was the Marshall Amps biased clean and he used 4x12 cabinets with large magnet EV and JBL Speakers.

[LtKojak]

I know this may be edging too close to the secret sauce area of info, but I'm going to ask anyway.

I'm looking for that Dicky Betts goldtop "woody" sound and my research, to my great surprise, said that both of his pickups were in the mid 7's (k Ohms). Will more symmetric bobbin winding get that woody tone, or is a greater offset needed?

My first guess was he had pickups closer to 8k Ohms with a wide offset. But, I'm now guessing he rolls the tone to 5 or so to hit his sound. I am in the final finishing stages of 2 Les Paul's that take humbuckers, but I do not have any guitar, right now, to test humbuckers in. I also have an alder&maple, no F hole, Tele thin line that will have humbuckers though I will need to use 52mm spacing at the bridge.

Thanks!

Do you have a CNC automatic-traverse winder? If yes, try this recipe:
Neck P'up:
Screw coil: 4850 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 20% under breaking point. No scatter.
Slug coil: 4850 turns of AWG#42PE @ 95 TPL, tension set @ 25% under breaking point. No scatter.
1018 screws, 1215 slugs, 1018 keeper, Raw nickelsilver cover, A3 magnet, fully-charged.

Bridge P'up:
Screw coil: 5500 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 20% under breaking point. Normal scatter.
Slug coil: 5500 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 25% under breaking point. Normal scatter.
1018 screws, 1215 slugs, 1018 keeper, Raw nickelsilver cover, A2 magnet, fully-charged.

HTH,

[GunbarrelCustom]

Do you have a CNC automatic-traverse winder? If yes, try this recipe:
Neck P'up:
Screw coil: 4850 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 20% under breaking point. No scatter.
Slug coil: 4850 turns of AWG#42PE @ 95 TPL, tension set @ 25% under breaking point. No scatter.
1018 screws, 1215 slugs, 1018 keeper, Raw nickelsilver cover, A3 magnet, fully-charged.

Bridge P'up:
Screw coil: 5500 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 20% under breaking point. Normal scatter.
Slug coil: 5500 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 25% under breaking point. Normal scatter.
1018 screws, 1215 slugs, 1018 keeper, Raw nickelsilver cover, A2 magnet, fully-charged.

HTH,

I just have my hands and a device to spin the bobbin. That said I typically am really close to the the specs on the Coil Estimator at 78.5%. I have not tried to do a loose coil yet and I have only wound humbuckers for Tele neck position which I scatter for a bright and punchy sound. I do like A3 in the neck so I think I will leave the leads long so I can change out magnets without major surgery. I have been building guitars for about 3 years now and have a pretty good handle on what affects tone, feel and sustain, but I am a bit hit and miss still with pickups. I just haven't had the time to experiment with pickups to bend them to my will lol.

For your neck pickup example how does having the tight coil affect the sound?

Huge thanks guys.

The second solo in Blue Sky is probably the best example of the woody tone, but after watching some youtube of Dicky much of the tone is in his fingers!

[big_teee]

Hand winders usually don't get overly concerned with tension.
But, try to keep a controlled medium hand tension.
Faster winding speed will help limit scatter, which is usually not desired in humbuckers.
With medium tension, and low scatter, what is left to control tone, is mainly the amount of turns(DCR), magnet type and gauss, metal parts and wire size.
Hand winders that concentrate on those things, IMO will do good!

PS: the Tone in this clip at 4-5 minutes in, to me just sounds like a low wound neck bucker and a great sounding marshall amp, with EL34s!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1jpQu6qR1E

[GunbarrelCustom]

Thanks everyone! I completed the goldtop a few weeks ago with 1957/58 specs and last night completed a LP with 59 specs, but just a wrap (Mojoaxe) tailpiece (I love the way they play and I use 1 3/16" bushings for max feel).

I'm out of time now, but I will expand on my findings a bit later.

[GunbarrelCustom]

I have been experimenting with magnets in the two LPs I made. What is strange is the magnets I am using are all from Addiction-FX and things do not match up, versus what I have read on the net, for magnet changes. All the magnets are rough.

I changed a set from A2 to A4 and the output dropped by about 1/4 and there are less sizzling harmonics with the A4. The bass and treble are firmer with the A4 and it has an even feel.

I installed an UOA5 in a different bridge pickup that had an A4 in it and wasn't sure what to expect. What I hear is greater output, firmer overall feel and a sweeter, less extended top end. Now I am trying to decide if I should leave the A4 in the neck or install an UOA5. I will note that the bridge PU is not connected to a tone pot and is attached to a pot that rolls out one coil and if you pull the knob you get the other coil. Very nice and a great way to tame the guitar if cleaner sound is needed.

[guitician]

Rolling out a coil will let hum in. I used a UOA5 in my neck PU of my R7 and it blasts output, a little heavy on the low end though. I would think "Woody" would be less bass, with a mid-range tone.

[jack briggs]

Do you have a CNC automatic-traverse winder? If yes, try this recipe:


Bridge P'up:
Screw coil: 5500 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 20% under breaking point. Normal scatter.
Slug coil: 5500 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 25% under breaking point. Normal scatter.


HTH,

Pepe,

Can you explain what you mean by "normal scatter" if you have 65 TPL with CNC auto-traverse?


cheers,

[LtKojak]

Pepe,

Can you explain what you mean by "normal scatter" if you have 65 TPL with CNC auto-traverse?


cheers,

You can program the auto-traverse to have "normal scatter", (the counter is guiding the wire from layer 1 to 65, then jumps to 1 again) or "noscatter" (the counter is guiding the wire from layer 1 to 65, then from 64 to 1)

HTH,

[jack briggs]

You can program the auto-traverse to have "normal scatter", (the counter is guiding the wire from layer 1 to 65, then jumps to 1 again) or "noscatter" (the counter is guiding the wire from layer 1 to 65, then from 64 to 1)

HTH,

do you think there would be a difference? if the guide is traversing back to "1" after "65", it would (depending upon the speed) just be laying a couple of wraps down before starting 1-65 again......or am I missing something??


cheers,

[danman]

I want to thank you LtKojak for the recipe that you listed above! I wound my first set of humbuckers several months back following your suggestions and they sounded great! I have tried several other variations since then but none have sounded as nice as this first set.

[LtKojak]

I want to thank you LtKojak for the recipe that you listed above! I wound my first set of humbuckers several months back following your suggestions and they sounded great! I have tried several other variations since then but none have sounded as nice as this first set.

You're welcome.

Glad it worked out for you!

[GunbarrelCustom]

Do you have a CNC automatic-traverse winder? If yes, try this recipe:
Neck P'up:
Screw coil: 4850 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 20% under breaking point. No scatter.
Slug coil: 4850 turns of AWG#42PE @ 95 TPL, tension set @ 25% under breaking point. No scatter.
1018 screws, 1215 slugs, 1018 keeper, Raw nickelsilver cover, A3 magnet, fully-charged.

Bridge P'up:
Screw coil: 5500 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 20% under breaking point. Normal scatter.
Slug coil: 5500 turns of AWG#42PE @ 65 TPL, tension set @ 25% under breaking point. Normal scatter.
1018 screws, 1215 slugs, 1018 keeper, Raw nickelsilver cover, A2 magnet, fully-charged.

HTH,

I notice you do not offset the coils at all. I thought that was the route to mud? So far in my experiments I prefer larger offsets to lesser.

I now have a way to measure gauss so it is time to try fully charging A2, A3 & A4 and degaussing A5.