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Thread: Pickup Rewinds

  1. #36
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    Heres something I have never had in before- Ovation bass each coil has its own trim pot- 18K each bobbin, 44 gauge, pole pieces are .25 diameter alnico rods. The bobbin that needs repaired is not in its original location- all 4 would be staggered of course. It needs a new bobbin made as the old one is broken. not a particularly hard repair or really unusual design but I was never aware of this one.Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lollar Jason View Post
    Heres something I have never had in before- Ovation bass each coil has its own trim pot- 18K each bobbin, 44 gauge, pole pieces are .25 diameter alnico rods. The bobbin that needs repaired is not in its original location- all 4 would be staggered of course. It needs a new bobbin made as the old one is broken. not a particularly hard repair or really unusual design but I was never aware of this one.Click image for larger version. 

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    Hi Jason

    Are those caps or resistors on the pcb. I havn't seen one of those since the late 70's early 80's when I worked for Rose Morris in the UK (distributors for Ovation) Their electric 6 strings had a great single knob active tone system on the breadwinner.

    Cheers

    Andrew

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  3. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by the great waldo View Post
    Are those caps or resistors on the pcb. I havn't seen one of those since the late 70's early 80's when I worked for Rose Morris in the UK (distributors for Ovation) Their electric 6 strings had a great single knob active tone system on the breadwinner.
    They are RN600 resistors, made by Vishay (Dale). The 1003F or 1002F are the value code. They are no longer made.

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  4. #39
    Senior Member salvarsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Gwinn View Post
    They are RN600 resistors, made by Vishay (Dale). The 1003F or 1002F are the value code. They are no longer made.
    There are modern versions available from Vishay and ITT in the RN60 1/4 watt types if you need them and will pay a 2-3x premium over commercial 1% carbon film resistors.

    http://www.vishay.com/docs/31027/cmfmil.pdf

    Ovation electronics often contained mil spec bits, in part because the parent company Kaman was a military contractor and already had the purchasing channels in place. It's likely that the Ovation engineers used mil spec parts simply because they were at hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by salvarsan View Post
    There are modern versions available from Vishay and ITT in the RN60 1/4 watt types if you need them and will pay a 2-3x premium over commercial 1% carbon film resistors.

    http://www.vishay.com/docs/31027/cmfmil.pdf

    Ovation electronics often contained mil spec bits, in part because the parent company Kaman was a military contractor and already had the purchasing channels in place. It's likely that the Ovation engineers used mil spec parts simply because they were at hand.
    Or possibly for low noise, compared to carbon composition resistors.

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  6. #41
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    That Design never caught on.
    Active pickups and preamps took over about then.
    Most bass pickups now are either simple passive, or Active.
    Document your rewinds here!
    T

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    Last edited by big_teee; 11-13-2015 at 11:58 PM.


    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

    Terry

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    Picked up a Strat Single coil pickup today at a local guitar store to rewind.
    The owner said he thought it was an old Di-mar pickup.
    It has a bobbin, with allen screws, a Keeper bar on the bottom with dual ceramic magnets on the bottom.
    The magnets are head to head like a P90 pickup.
    N/keeper/N.
    I searched the D. site and saw nothing like it.
    Does anyone know what the DCR was for this pickup.
    It look aged like it could be 70s maybe?
    Kind of has a Super distortion Single Coil look to it.
    I may go back with 43SP.
    Here are some pictures of it.
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    Last edited by big_teee; 11-14-2015 at 12:05 AM.


    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

    Terry

  8. #43
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    I also picked up an old Tele bridge pickup to rewind.
    It looks like it could have been a vintage fender at one time.
    It doesn't have a steel baseplate, and it has a piece of bare braid push back wire on it.
    I will try to put it back in a stock configuration, with baseplate.
    I will rewind both pickups, and post the results.
    If you have any info on either pickup in last two posts, I would like to hear it.
    T
    **As indicated by Stratz, this pickup appears to be from a Model 72 Custom.
    I think the markings on the bottom, the best I can tell, is 72, or maybe 73, the year is very faint.
    Here's the Fender Layout for a 72 Custom.
    http://support.fender.com/service_di...7500C_SISD.pdf
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    Last edited by big_teee; 11-14-2015 at 03:54 PM.


    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

    Terry

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    The Strat pickup is a Dimarzio SDS1
    I think they were around 8.8-9.5k. I have a couple that I can measure.

    The Tele bridge looks to be from a Custom Telecaster (early 70's?) because of the braided lead.
    It's missing the base plate.
    These were paired with a WRHB in the neck slot.
    Output was on the lower side. AWG 42 ~6.8k.... maybe more or less. I'd have to check my repair logs.

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    Last edited by Stratz; 11-13-2015 at 04:36 AM.

  10. #45
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    Do you think the tele pickup ever had a baseplate, or maybe mounted to the wood without it?
    It has round circles on the bottom at the 3 holes.

    T

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    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

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  11. #46
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    If it's a Fender it originally had a BP.
    You can even see the extra length of wire that was once soldered to the plate.

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  12. #47
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    All I have is some steel, no copper coated steel baseplates.
    Probably not what was on it.
    They will probably sell it loose in the guitar shop.
    I was planning on a rewind, put the steel base plate, and yellow and black clothe wire.
    It appears to be South up, wound CCW/Top Going.
    I usually wind my Tele sets, neck CW/S-U black & White, and Bridge CCW/N-U Yellow and Black.
    T

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    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

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    Fender bass vi rewind

    as mentioned in the other thread I am about to rewind some fender bass VI pickups. they appear to be similar to jag pickups.

    they are from a squire bass , however do look to be quite authentically created, using forbon and alnico magnets

    anyway here are some pics of the pickup assembled and disassembled

    also dimensions and other electrical parameters scanned from my notebook

    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #49
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    one more page which I Click image for larger version. 

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  15. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr fab View Post
    as mentioned in the other thread I am about to rewind some fender bass VI pickups. they appear to be similar to jag pickups.

    they are from a squire bass , however do look to be quite authentically created, using forbon and alnico magnets

    anyway here are some pics of the pickup assembled and disassembled

    also dimensions and other electrical parameters scanned from my notebook
    Thanks for all the info.
    It all being in metric, it doesn't mean much to a lot of us.
    I was going to make a layout, but never did figure out what the core dimensions were?
    If it is is a jaguar pickup, I guess that is close enough.
    T

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    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

    Terry

  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    Picked up a Strat Single coil pickup today at a local guitar store to rewind.
    The owner said he thought it was an old Di-marz pickup.
    It has a bobbin, with allen screws, a Keeper bar on the bottom with dual ceramic magnets on the bottom.
    The magnets are head to head like a P90 pickup.
    N/keeper/N.
    I searched the Di-marz site and saw nothing like it.
    Does anyone know what the DCR was for this pickup.
    It look aged like it could be 70s maybe?
    Kind of has a Super distortion Single Coil look to it.
    I may go back with 43SP.
    Here are some pictures of it.
    The Di-Marzi SDS pickup is way overwound with 42SPN.
    Overwound to the point that it was falling off the bobbin.
    Probably 11,000-11500 turns of wire on the bobbin.
    That was probably its demise.
    I've not had good life from pickups wound dangerously full.
    Bobbin dimensions.
    L=2.275"
    W=.248"
    H=.502"
    Flange=.610"
    I'm going to wind it with 10,000 turns of 42SP.
    That should make it around 8k ohms dcr.
    T

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    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    I'm going to wind it with 10,000 turns of 42SP.
    That should make it around 8k ohms dcr.
    T
    Just a FYI. Those SDS1 pickups were originally meant for the bridge position with a DCR reading of 9.0-9.3k

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  18. #53
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    D advertises 8.68k.
    http://music-electronics-forum.com/a...uick_guide.pdf
    10,000 turns will have to do.
    If there is a lot of room left after 10k turns, I may put on some more.
    I use to fill them up too much, I don't do that anymore.
    T
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    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

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  19. #54
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Also on the SDS-1, It was wound North up, CCW.
    To match the customers other strat type pickups, I will make it CW South up.
    T

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    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

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  20. #55
    Senior Member elipsey's Avatar
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    That is a beuatiful coil, I almost can't believe it's handwound!

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  21. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by elipsey View Post
    That is a beuatiful coil, I almost can't believe it's handwound!
    Please be specific, the Thread is full of them.
    I'm fixing to wind this SDS bobbin, you will probably not be able to say that about it!
    T

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    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

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    Oops, I meant to reply to kayakerca, but I know you are also an artist, T!

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  23. #58
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    Here's the Dimarzzi SDS-1.
    I could only get about 9700 turns on it.
    My wire that I used is a little large(but sounds great), .00272".
    It measured about 7.3k in the cool shop.
    So mine may be the MDS-2. (Medium Distortion Single, 2nd Generation)
    I'll pot it tomorrow, and do some more Taping, glue the magnets, and call it good.
    T
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    Last edited by big_teee; 11-14-2015 at 05:24 PM.


    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

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  24. #59
    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elipsey View Post
    Oops, I meant to reply to kayakerca, but I know you are also an artist, T!
    Lol. . . If I hand guide a wind, I promise I'll disclose that fact. I'm 100% mechanic, 0% artist. ��

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    Last edited by kayakerca; 11-14-2015 at 03:43 PM.
    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

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    Had a dead '67 Tele bridge in for a a rewind. Rust on both end pole pieces in the core area and on pole piece tops as well, but cleaned up nice. Double lacquered the bobbin to try and hold the the flared ends from getting any more so. Taped the core as well for a little more protection (T's flower wrapping tape). Wound it to 8.2kΩ with 42PE. Adjusted the width of the wind on the core every couple thousand turns to try and comfortably deal with the flaring on the ends and still have a reasonable looking coil shape at the end of the day. Only used about 16g. of dead draw tension to try and minimize the level of flaring the wind tension might generate. We'll have to see how things turned out with the rewind in another 48 years.

    Customer looking to get to Nocaster output (from what I can find could be anywhere from upper 7kΩ region all the way to 10kΩ zone). Didn't really want to risk adding anymore wire because of the flaring potential. It looks overly "shiny" from the finished photo, but that's really the light angle.
    When you hold it in your hand to look it over, it still has a nice looking vintage patina but without the rust.

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    The only important test will be the tonal characteristics once it's back in the Tele.

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    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

  26. #61
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Very nice Job Jim.
    I see you wound it CCW, can you give the Magnet polarity, North or south up.
    If you have the Height info between the flats, We can compare to other bridge pickups?
    The 8.2k should sound great, I've made some about like that.
    Thanks for all the info and pictures.
    T

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    Last edited by big_teee; 11-24-2015 at 03:46 PM.


    "Don't Let Yesterday, Use Up Too Much of Today." Will Rogers 1930s

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    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    Very nice Job Jim.
    I see you wound it CCW, can you give the Magnet polarity, North or south up.
    If you have the Height info between the flats, We can compare to other bridge pickups?
    The 8.2k should sound great, I've made some about like that.
    Thanks for all the info and pictures.
    T
    The original was wound CCW and it's south up. The core was .450" between the flats (well, at least where it wasn't flared).

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    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

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    I got this 1967 Tele set in last week for repair.
    Both are wound CCW and south up.

    I'll need to replace the flatwork on the neck pickup.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    These rusty magnets are from an early 70's Tele repair.
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  29. #64
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    got around to rewinding that- 35,000 turns 44 gauge per coil dont recall turns per layer but it was maximum you can do with 44

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  30. #65
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    Got in this pair of DeArmonds for repair and rewind. It's a 2000B and 2000T set, owner even sent them in the original box they came in. The neck pickup was dead and while the bridge pickup had an ohms reading, it had a very short lead wire, and the start wire connection had been broken and was only making connection by touching the little brass strip that they have on the bottom. I was able to repair the bridge one by splicing on longer leads, but I had to rewind the neck one. Someone had tried to find the break in it and had untaped it and unwound a few turns, but the main problem was that the start connection had been broken off inside the bobbin. I'll give the bobbin dimensions here shortly, but first I have a question.

    These appear to have been intentionally wound out of phase. Has anyone here run into this before on these? They came as a boxed set, I'm guessing as replacement parts. The owner bought them in the late 1960's to retrofit them into a Fender Coronado guitar. I am certain that the neck pickup was wound CCW because I unwound enough additional turns to verify that. Both have south polarity on the magnets. I didn't untape the bridge pickup, but when I do a phase test on them I get positive on the neck and negative on the bridge. I'm using the analog ohmmeter and chunk of metal method to do the phase test. That leads me to believe the bridge pickup is wound CW. I can correct the problem by reversing the polarity on the neck pickup magnets, but first I thought I would ask in the forum.

    Bobbin Core Dimensions

    Length: 2.301
    Width: .520
    Height: .175
    Flange: 1.125

    Bridge measured 11.4K ohms. Wire on the neck pickup looked like #44 poly red. Diameter measured .0023.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  31. #66
    Member Jim Darr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyW View Post
    Got in this pair of DeArmonds for repair and rewind. It's a 2000B and 2000T...

    Bobbin Core Dimensions

    Length: 2.301
    Width: .520
    Height: .175
    Flange: 1.125
    Sonny,

    Are you sure of the coil height at .175?

    I'll have to check my notes, but I think I measured a slightly taller coil at about .21 -- My memory may be fading or the number could include the flats (unlikely since the difference between the two are so small). I know the height difference is not that great, but every detail counts.

    As I recall, 44 was the gauge used. I think both were wound in the same direction. Could the neck be a rewind??

    Anyway, I'll see if I can find my original notes on this design and see what I captured.

    Thanks for sharing.

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    Supporting Member SonnyW's Avatar
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    Hi Jim,

    Just measured again on the neck pickup. Used a different set of digital calipers just in case. Since it has already been rewound I could only check the dimension on the corners but those measure .181- .189 depending on where you measure. I originally measured without any wire on the bobbin and I think there is a little bit of taper to it, so it would be a bigger gap at the outside than at the deepest part. Maybe they had more than one bobbin mold, I didn't measure the bridge pickup's core it was full and taped up.

    As far as any rewinds, the owner says he bought them new and as a set, installed them and then took them back out and kept them stored in his basement for a long time. I did email the owner and ask about this. He said that when he bought the set he thought it was supposed to be humbucking, which could have been a RWRP pair to begin with. Part of the reason he took them out is that they weren't humbucking when switched together. The box says 2000-4 so I don't know what that meant, but maybe a RWRP pair was some kind of an option at the time? There were a lot of versions of the 2000's/ Dynasonics. Owner says they were stored together for a long time and maybe that could have caused one set of magnets to be reversed, but I doubt it because they are pretty much full charge. It will be easy for me to reverse the charge on the neck pickup magnets and make it a RWRP pair though, and that's what the owner wanted originally.

    Edit: Went ahead and popped open the bridge pickup and did the same measurements on the corners. It measured .184 - .197, again only measuring at the corners and depending on which corner.

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    Member Jim Darr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonnyW View Post
    ...The box says 2000-4 so I don't know what that meant, but maybe a RWRP pair was some kind of an option at the time?...Owner says they were stored together for a long time and maybe that could have caused one set of magnets to be reversed, but I doubt it because they are pretty much full charge.
    Sonny,

    Thanks for rechecking and the updated measurements. Not sure what the 2000-4 meant on the original box...maybe someone else can chime in on that one.

    I agree it is very unlikely to reverse the charge just by getting close to the other pickup. It probably left the factory the way you see it. Your 24C should do the job quickly to make the neck RP.

    I'll check for my original notes for this pickup over this weekend. I also have a reissue in the shop somewhere that I'll take some measurements from for a comparison.

    Thanks again for your post and insight.

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    Sonny,

    Just measured the Reissue 2000 that I have in the shop. Between the flats measured from .198 to .213. Keep in mind that these measurements are with the pickup wound.

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    Supporting Member SonnyW's Avatar
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    Thanks, Jim,

    I wonder if that is a difference between the 1960's version and the Reissues? .197 was the most I saw checking on two bobbins, and .198 was the least you saw. Both of my bobbins were wound as well, one a rewind and one original about 1966-1968. Anyway, it sounds like .197-.198 would be a good reference number that's in the middle.

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