Top 3 string so sharp. Wtf already?

[Sea Chief]

My 'trusty' SG again (Faded'08). sheesh..

I cant understand why my top 3 unwound strings, G esp, go sharp & gtr out of tune so quickly. Im talking every 3 mins playing, often after just a few chords. It so tests my patience. My acoustic stays put for hours.

Why? how can strings go UP? I mean if down (they never go flat) then ok.. so tuners a tad loose or strings on posts a tad slipping, or strings not properly stretched on fitting etc. But UP/ sharp? how? it makes me go insane.

And why seemingly only this gtr? Ive never known this on others Ive had over many years. Thanks SC.

[J M Fahey]

Weird and unexplainable so won't even try.

Contrary to common experience.

[Sea Chief]

Weird and unexplainable so won't even try.

Contrary to common experience.

What is weird & unexplainable? & what is contrary to common experience-?

[Leo_Gnardo]

Strings that stick in the nut slots will go sharp especially after bending 'em. I have an old Guild that does like this, I'm just too lazy to make a new nut out of aged bone or "GraphTech", one of these days...

You need to minimize the friction the string encounters in that nut slot.

1: slot too narrow? string will stick all the time & nothing besides widening the slot will fix that.

2: a nice smooth round bottom of the slot helps (we like nice round bottoms, no?) Super fine sandpaper 600 grit up to 1000 or so can smooth the string's track thru the slot.

3: lubricate slots. Choices choices, A: dot of motor oil. B: special "Tufoil" with teflon, I used to find little applicator tubes of this at the auto parts store cheap. Down to my last tube, I wonder if it's still around, or if there's an equivalent in England. C: graphite powder, also at the auto parts or hardware DIY. D: mix graphite powder and white grease such as Lubriplate, just a pea size dot of this goop will last years. Dab a little of this mix into nut slots with a pin or similar, it's about as slippery as you can get. Guitar shops sell mini tubs (quarter ounce) for $5. Heck for that price you can buy the ingredients and have a lifetime supply.

Note all these lubes still haven't helped on my old Guild. I guess the plastic used to make the nut is "sticky." Time for a fresh one, suffered long enough with the factory part. Still, for you they may be worth a try. If no joy, splash for a GraphTech part.

[Sea Chief]

Thanks- Ive been wondering about a graph-tech, but very wary of nut removal of the existing one (especially after that skilled chap took 2 hrs to do on a Corian-nut SG standard).. and shaping the new one to fit.

Ive been reading and it seems a common prob this sharp issue then- Ive had no issue in 30yrs bar this SG Ive had for 2 yrs now so thought it was a complete anomally/ one-off. Cant get my head around how if sticking in nut slot it should go sharp not flat.. but I'll try the fine s'paper & lube & report back

Thanks. SC

[Dave H]

Cant get my head around how if sticking in nut slot it should go sharp not flat..

SGs have notoriously bendy necks don't they? Perhaps when you bend the other strings the neck flexes and the sticking nut pulls the thin strings sharp when the neck relaxes.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Cant get my head around how if sticking in nut slot it should go sharp not flat.

I was puzzled too until an excellent local luthier explained it.

Ideally the string tension is identical, either side of the nut. With ideal (zero) friction in the nut slot, tension will increase as you bend a string then go back to normal - both sides of the nut - when string returns to normal tension. With sticky nut slots, the main part of the string can be in tune but the bit between nut & tuning peg may be at a higher tension due to friction in the nut slot. When you bend a string, that little bit of extra tension yanks the main part of the string thru the nut, just a tiny bit, but enough to drive it sharp. Sometimes the tension releases during normal playing with a "pop" (stick and slip) making for sour sounding chords and unpredictable tuning.

Yes SG's with their poorly supported necks have a reputation for going out of tune usually flat. It takes a very light touch with the fretting hand to avoid this. Some lucky or well trained players have that feather touch. Others, like me, choke the neck like a chicken & put arm pressure on besides driving it out of tune, also crashing the strings into frets with that arm pressure. They're a bit fiddly, not my cup of tea, but some guitarists have put them to good use, Todd Rundgren, & the Young bro's of AC/DC f'rinstance.

[Sea Chief]

SGs have notoriously bendy necks don't they? Perhaps when you bend the other strings the neck flexes and the sticking nut pulls the thin strings sharp when the neck relaxes.

Yes the necks are slightly weak n bendy, but actually I dont ever bend strings at all. I dig in sure but bending is for solo nonsense & thats just all showing off and pulling faces and stuff. Never has been me (tho Id give my left testicle to play a 5 sec bursty solo like D.Boon).

I have done some careful 600 grit folded and buffed & v v slighty widened each slot, then a dab of lube as Leo_Gnardo suggested: and thats a major improvement. On inspection I think it was the width of the slot that was pinching the strings slightly (tho how theyd go sharp is odd) each side. Ive just had a damn good long thrashy strum and if anything the G actually went slightly -flat-! great. thats just fine. The B and E are really so much better too.

Excellent- what a relief! thanks chaps.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Yay Chief! Now just for the helluvit see if you can bend a string without making a face... when I do mostly I smile a lot at the goofy noises I can make, it's fun! Guitar playing - it's a bit about showing off. Takes some nerve to get in front of an audience, of even one, to do it. That's show biz!

[Sea Chief]

No, I just tried a string bendy but I pulled a face & I started to bite my lower lip. I dont think its possible.

I can only dig one person pulling faces- Dean Ween but he does his spazz out thing (where he gets so into a solo he has to let go of the neck) so its intentionally & genuinely fkin amusing.

weenology https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7T75hyvSsw

[J M Fahey]

What is weird & unexplainable? & what is contrary to common experience-?

That they go sharp instead of flat.
Are you kidding me?
You said it yourself:

Why? how can strings go UP? I mean if down (they never go flat) then ok.. so tuners a tad loose or strings on posts a tad slipping, or strings not properly stretched on fitting etc. But UP/ sharp? how? it makes me go insane.

[Steve A.]

I have run into grabby nut problems with the 2013 and 2014 Gibson LPJ family (the nuts on these are Plek'd- go figure!) My test is to push down on the string between the nut and the tuner and if the pitch stays sharp the string is hanging up on the nut.

I have an $80 set of nut files but they are for making the slots deeper not wider. So I got a set of stainless steel acetylene torch orifice cleaners from Anazon and have been using them to widen the slots. I also have some sort of lubricant I got at GC a few years ago.

Getting back to the Plek'd nuts I think it is mainly a sales gimmick to give people the idea that the fretboard or frets are Plek'd. The problem is that the "motherplek'r" is cutting the nut slots too deep so if you adjust the truss rod some of the strings might buzz on the first fret. (I liked how nut slots were usually too shallow so I could cut them to the depth I wanted.

Not wanting to replace the factory nuts I used super glue and baking soda to fill the slots a bit and then cut to proper depth.

Steve A.

[Sea Chief]

Hi Steve- understood, that sums things up succinctly. Plek'd.. never heard of it until I skipped thru the luthier-guy's clip I mentioned (Corian nut replacement) in my other thread re. the nuts' "back slope".

Ideally Id just redo the nut with a graphtech.. but after seeing this (seemingly excellent) luthier's clip of him spending 2hrs removing the epoxied Corian.. my knees went all trembly/ sort this one out if poss. A 2010 SG Standard at $1200 I just dont believe will be fitted by such a reputable Co, with a 'terrible' nut. So some luthier propaganda is to be taken on board. Im sure the nut could be bettered no doubt, but unless the sustain is significanlty improved with a replacement (A Q I ask an my other thread) and the angle he mentions isnt actually so bad as he says.. then Im happy with the corian. The sustain will only be improved on the open strings anyway, right?

You might find it useful too. At 3.00 is his very detailed info on Plek'd etc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW-DTdO2DAc

Thanks, SC

[Steve A.]

Great video on corian nuts! Thanks for posting it. Here is a link to the butyl cellusolve he used to reflow the nitrocellulose...

.http://www.amazon.com/Butyl-Cellosol.../dp/B00CF2JMDM

I guess you could use that for flaws in the finish...?

Steve A.

[Richard]

I have a 2014 LP Melody Maker and I'm Not happy with the nut. Switching to 10's from the original 9's (I think) probably doesn't help but what the video guy says about the sharp angle matched my suspicions. I'd like to see it curve from the angle of the fretboard to the string angle behind the nut. That seemed to work well on other guitars.