PAF Pickups & Effects of TPL

[A. Winder]

Getting interesting results with 12 TPL on slug coils.

[big_teee]

Getting interesting results with 12 TPL on slug coils.

That sounds interesting.
You would end up with a coil with lots of layers that had a lower ohms dcr reading.
I wonder how ohms dcr you end up with?
I do scatter on taller Single Coils.
Not tried low tpl on a humbucker.
T

[A. Winder]

Hi T, I think the DCR is actually higher for the same number of turns compared to a higher TPL because of two things. Each individual wind is longer because the pitch is greater - it goes more diagonally across the bobbin. The coil is also fatter due to more layers, which makes the outer layers bigger, hence more distance around the coil per wind. There seems to be more open space inside a coil like this so I imagine it would be more prone to microphonics than one with a higher TPL. I haven't been paying much attention to DCR readings lately except to make sure the coils aren't open or shorted, as the reading is different every time I measure it.

[big_teee]

I agree scatter drives up the dcr.
but at 12tpl, I don't think you can get 5000 turns on the pickup.
So the DCR will be high tpl, but the turns counts will be low.
I thought 50tpl was considered on the hand scattered low tpl side?
I'll try to plot some of that out later.
GL,
T

[Stratz]

I agree scatter drives up the dcr.
but at 12tpl, I don't think you can get 5000 turns on the pickup.

T

5,000 turns at low TPL is no problem Terry, 6,000 + if I'm paying attention.

[big_teee]

My layout shows you can't get 5000 turns on a humbucker bobbin at 12tpl.
I can't go that low but this shows that it layers out before that.
I might add, that it's not a big deal either way.
I guess if your doing that low of tpl, you just put on all you can.

[Stratz]

Trust me. It's easily done with room to spare ; )

[big_teee]

To start with, I never trust anyone, including myself!
Good deal if it fits, but the math doesn't support it.
That should make a fat sounding coil, maybe usable for a bridge pickup.
T

5000 Turns divided by 12 Turns per Layer
5000/12 =416.666666 layers ?

[mr fab]

I tried low tpl's and didn't like the result. the pickups lacked focus and sounded weak

below 30 tpl I have found that there is not much benefit

[A. Winder]

Here is a photograph of a coil wound with 12 TPL and 5,157 turns. Please note that the lower flanges of the bobbin are cut away at the ends. As you can see the bobbin is not yet full. I'm not sure a low TPL like this would sound good on both coils of a humbucker, but I have had good results with 12 TPL on the slug coil in both a bridge and a neck pickup. The sound may not be to everyone's taste, of course. Supposedly Gibson is using a similarly low TPL on the slug coil of one of their current PAF style pickups, and there are indications that a similar TPL was used on the slug coils of some early PAFs. I can't say for certain though as I haven't unwound any PAFs. It would be nice if someone could confirm this (not likely, I know).

I encourage anyone to try it if they are curious to hear what it sounds like.

[jack briggs]

from my experiences and measurements, with all else equal - lower TPL vs. higher will result in lower inductance and a thinner tone.
anybody else experience this?


cheers,

[Stratz]

Supposedly Gibson is using a similarly low TPL on the slug coil of one of their current PAF style pickups

Gibson is winding these slug bobbins with a return traverse machine which will have two separate turns per layer on each bobbin.
One pitch that is set for the preferred TPL set by Gibson and another for the quick return which is much less than the first (about 18-20 tpl) from the quick return of the feeder.

[Stratz]

To start with, I never trust anyone, including myself!
Good deal if it fits, but the math doesn't support it.
That should make a fat sounding coil, maybe usable for a bridge pickup.
T

5000 Turns divided by 12 Turns per Layer
5000/12 =416.666666 layers ?

I think you rely far too much on Mr Salversans calculator.
Obviously it's not infallible as A. Winder has just shown.

[big_teee]

If You look at his picture, I can see 50-60 turns, or so across the bobbin.
Are thes turns on the same layer, or are they on different layers?
I was just trying to make sense out of it.
So Logically if you put 12 turns per layer then when you go back the other direction, then wire must be going between the turns on the previous layer.
If you follow the math and keep the layers separate, then we would do this.
416.666 x .00268 =1.25424 inches on each side of the bobbin core.
So that proves to me that there is more than 12 turns per layer.
I don't have a auto winder with traverse, and I don't have the bobbin to count turns.
But, the math don't lie?
So someone explain how it fits on there?
T

[Stratz]

You can tell from his picture that there is far more than 12 turns per layer.

T

Really?
Does that mean you can look at a PAF bobbin and approximate the TPL without unwinding it?

I have fit far more than 5,000 turns on standard Mojo bobbin at TPL's lower than 20