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Single coil Pickups GLASSY SOUND problem!!!!

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  • #16
    I've got to do some testing on some pickups later, I will try different caps on 10 and see I agree.
    The ears is what matters to me.
    T
    "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
    Terry

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mike Sulzer
      The value of the capacitor is not an issue on 10.
      Originally posted by big_teee View Post
      Why not Mike?
      The cap is always there, just the resistance is different.
      With a 250k pot, it's not that much, now if you have a no load pot on 10 then the cap wouldn't matter.
      Switch in different values, on 10 and you will here a difference.
      I've done this experiment, granted it's not a double blind test but with a freshly strung John Suhr Strat, a selection of tone caps, a selection of 250K and 500K tone pots dialled all the way up, in a quiet hotel room all by myself, with all the concentration I could give it, I thought I could just barely hear the difference of a tone cap being in place, or not. Thought meaning I really had to question whether I was hearing it or not, or whether I was suggesting to myself that I should hear it. So, if there is a noticeable difference in hi frequency rolloff dependent on either tone control value or cap value with the tone dialled to 10, it's mighty subtle, and only a true double blind test could help discern whether it's audible or not.

      Of course there's been an offering of special "no load" pots since then, that open the circuit to the cap, for those who claim they can hear the hi frequency rolloff. Use 'em if it makes a difference to you, no problem!

      Any account of a DBT having been done would be instructive here. Until such a test shows the average, or even "eagle-eared" player can obviously hear it, I'm with Mike on this one.
      This isn't the future I signed up for.

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      • #18
        I wire in a home made varitone to some of my guitars that changes out the cap value on the fly, from .047 down to .001, and at 10 I can't hear a difference, but once I get it down to about six or seven on the tone knob, the cap value does start to change the overall degree to which the high end rolls off. The new, lower resonant peak that is caused by the added parallel capacitance isn't very audible until I get down to around two, and then is in full effect at zero.

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        • #19
          Click image for larger version

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          These are all dimensions that I measure...

          To try to explain the sound ...
          Glassy sound that I get is not at all pleasant to the ears ... something similar as when the equalizer reduce the bass and amplify treble...

          To explain some little details ...

          All parts bought from a local dealer...

          I did not work bevel ... This was already done ...
          but I think this is not a problem since I bought one set without bevel and the sound is almost the same...

          I think it's the height of the bobbin... I have a 12 mm If it could affect the sound??? I'm a total beginner at this....

          Peter Naglitsch - asked

          "Can you measure the magnets strength?" yes strength of the magnet around 25 gouss

          Before winding I put the transparent layer of varnish

          Thanks
          Last edited by colmax; 03-15-2016, 10:38 PM.

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          • #20
            First thing is .what do you mean "glassy"
            I like glassy . but it's the tone of a pleasing neck strat pickup through a Fender style tube amp like a deluxe reverb
            balanced bass & treble .
            "UP here in the Canada we shoot things we don't understand"

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            • #21
              To try to explain the sound ...

              Glassy sound that I get is not at all pleasant to the ears ... something similar as when the equalizer reduce the bass and amplify treble...

              Or

              Maybe it's a good explanation


              "Some kind of thin and sterile sounding"

              I do not know how better to explain the sound....

              Thanks

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              • #22
                I'm not gonna tell you how to wind pickups .Start wasting wire ..& add some Bass & sweeten that treble ,add this to your 8000 turn recipe .
                this can be achieved by the way your winding = pattern,tension .
                "UP here in the Canada we shoot things we don't understand"

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                • #23
                  Instead of calling it glassy, I would call it bright, maybe ice picky, & sterile.
                  Most of us here wind 3 different pickups for strats.
                  Less on the neck, a little more for the middle, and a lot more for the bridge.
                  Neck and middle can be similar.
                  I would shorten all of them, to no more than 11mm, .435"
                  Scatter wind some, to change and fatten up the tpl pattern.
                  As I mentioned before, be sure and tape your magnets that will stop some heart ache later on.
                  T
                  Last edited by big_teee; 03-16-2016, 01:52 AM. Reason: typo
                  "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
                  Terry

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                  • #24
                    Tonight I'll try again with all recommendations...

                    For the little time I have learned a lot from you guys

                    Thanks

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                    • #25
                      Hi Colmax

                      Check with a multimeter to see if you get a reading ohms between the start wire and the magnets. You might be getting shorts. Shouldn't be a big problem though and definitely go with 11 mm between the bobbin. Big T has got it right. By the way what amp and guitar are you using to test the pups?


                      Cheers

                      Andrew

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                      • #26
                        Harsh and glassy is how I'd describe MANY generic, full gauss Alnico 5 strat pickups with 'vintage' type winds. I think that's kind of their nature @ ~8000turns. Alnico 2 or 3 mags would soften the highs and make them dig less, IME, and more winds will increase inductance and lower the resonant frequency, which would make the pickup sound 'warmer' and less harsh and glassy. IMO, definitely overwind the bridge pickup a bit, to smooth out the highs.

                        For reference I've got some tonerider A3 strat pickups that sound just fine with 500k volume and 1 Meg tone pots. While I've got a set of A5 strat pickups with a very similar wind that sound 'glassy' and a bit harsh and digging on the treble, with 250K volume and 500k tone, which should pad the resonant frequency slightly, and remove highs.

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                        • #27
                          One of the unfortunate things about stock Strat wiring is that the bridge position only sees 250k load, where as the neck and middle see a parallel 250k/250k for a total of 125k, so the bridge is have a higher Q, all other things being equal. It's more of what don't want, and less of what you do. If you over-wind the bridge, you still have the same high Q, maybe even higher in fact, but now you have a lower resonant peak, which makes a for a different overall transfer characteristic. If you wire the Strat to have a tone on the bridge as well, it will bring the Q down, similar to the neck and middle otherwise, and create a surprisingly more balanced sound Strat, even with three identically wound pickups.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by John Kolbeck View Post
                            One of the unfortunate things about stock Strat wiring is that the bridge position only sees 250k load, where as the neck and middle see a parallel 250k/250k for a total of 125k, so the bridge is have a higher Q, all other things being equal. It's more of what don't want, and less of what you do. If you over-wind the bridge, you still have the same high Q, maybe even higher in fact, but now you have a lower resonant peak, which makes a for a different overall transfer characteristic. If you wire the Strat to have a tone on the bridge as well, it will bring the Q down, similar to the neck and middle otherwise, and create a surprisingly more balanced sound Strat, even with three identically wound pickups.
                            I don't agree, please explain.
                            T
                            "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
                            Terry

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                            • #29
                              The bridge pickup is bright because it doesn't typically have a tone pot with stock wiring which will sharpen the resonant peak compared to a pickup loaded by a 250k tone pot. An overwind will increase resistance, which would tame the resonant peak's height as well as bringing the resonant frequency down to a lower frequency, due to the higher inductance. FWIW, the examples I listed above have a 'master tone' so all pickups are being 'loaded' equally by the same value tone pot. The resonant peak can easily be controlled with a tone control, but if the resonant peak is in a nasty area, the tone control wont help much until you completely roll the peak off, or move the peak with capacitance. I've found this to be the case with my A5 strat set. They're piercing and harsh, until the tone control rolls off enough to make the sound start sounding muffled/muddy and rolled off. Taming the resonant peak doesn't seem to help much on that particular set, while my A3 set doesn't have that issue. A ~3000khz resonant peak can become quite harsh and unpleasant to the human ear.
                              Last edited by JD0x0; 03-16-2016, 04:57 PM.

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                              • #30
                                I mentioned the stock wiring and the tone mod back in post 11.
                                It's the 125k statement that I don't agree with.
                                The only time you would have two pickups in parallel would be in pos. 2 & 4.
                                And, that is for the volume pot.
                                The loading on the Tone circuit would also only be in position 4, neck and middle.
                                In pos. 2 mid. & bridge only the middle would load the tone circuit with stock wiring.
                                However, I don't know anyone that wires strats that way anymore.
                                T
                                "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
                                Terry

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