Single coil Pickups GLASSY SOUND problem!!!!

[John Kolbeck]

A stock Strat has two tone circuits that are enabled and disabled depending on where the selector switch is set. It works out to:

bridge:             250 vol = 250k load
bridge+middle:      250 vol & 250 tone = 125k load
middle:             250 vol & 250 middle tone = 125k load
middle+neck:        250 vol & 250 middle tone & 250 neck tone = 83.3k load
neck:               250 vol & 250 neck tone = 125k load

So the load is bouncing all over the place. There are at least a couple ways to involve the bridge into the two tone circuit scheme, but either one will most likely result in the bridge pickup seeing 125k load instead of 250k. My preference is to just do a master tone control, which keep the pot induced load the same for all positions.

The fact that a Strat uses 250k pots all around where as Les Pauls and other Gibsons use 300k - 500k goes to show that load is already utilized to tame the Q of Strat pickups as it is. It's just a matter of taking things a little farther, and applying it more evenly across the guitar's pickup choices. If might be tempting for pickup winders and retailers to want to find solutions within the confines of a wound pickup, and one way to do that is to add a conductive metal plate to the bottom of the pickup.

[big_teee]

I don't agree with your logic.
Your counting the tone loaded the same as the volume circuit.
The tone circuit is not terminated to ground on one side of the pot like the volume pot.
The tone is a RCL circuit grounded through the whatever Cap you have in the circuit.
Also the loading varies depending on where the Pots are set.
I don't wire mine that way anyhow!
Not a good example IMO.

[Mike Sulzer]

The 125K comes from the volume and tone control in parallel. The tone capacitor is effectively a short circuit at high frequencies, and they are just in parallel.

I mentioned the stock wiring and the tone mod back in post 11.
It's the 125k statement that I don't agree with.
The only time you would have two pickups in parallel would be in pos. 2 & 4.
And, that is for the volume pot.
The loading on the Tone circuit would also only be in position 4, neck and middle.
In pos. 2 mid. & bridge only the middle would load the tone circuit with stock wiring.
However, I don't know anyone that wires strats that way anymore.
T

[pdf64]

Bear in mind that over much of the audio band, and almost certainly for the PUs resonant frequency, the tone control cap's reactance will be very low, eg <1k okm, so for our purposes, it can be considered a short, and so the load that the tone control circuit puts on to the pick up, when set on '10', is equal to the control track resistance

[big_teee]

Like I said, I don't know anyone that wires them that way.
I usually put the bridge own its on tone pot, and own cap.
Usually make the tone Pots 500s, or 1megs.
I only know what I hear.
The strat with 3 P/Us & only 3 pots is just a comprimise at best anyway.
I'll leave it to you guys to wonk over.
I think I will go and make and test pickups the old fashioned way.
By making and listening to them.
Later,

[robthequiet]

Hm, so looking at the op's setup, ~6K pups with 100nF cap equals *bright* if not thin. Recs for dropping the cap to .022uF or .047uF would be my first choice too. Have to do an ear test with a .1uF ceramic vs .1uF orange drop if that makes a difference, but with the tone pot dimed the pup is still bright anyway. So maybe put the bridge pup in the neck and make a new bridge for a fatter sound? Kinda depends on what sound you want, and what effects and amp you're going through as well. Might be good for chikin pickin, but if you want Clapton or Blackmore darkness, there's choices. Maybe colmax would like to say for what kind of music the guitar is being built?

[big_teee]

Hm, so looking at the op's setup, 8K pups with .0001uF (100nF) cap equals *bright* if not thin. Recs for dropping the cap to .22 or .47 would be my first choice too. Have to do an ear test with a .1 ceramic vs .1 orange drop if that makes a difference, but with the tone pot dimed the pup is still bright anyway. So maybe put the bridge 8K pup in the neck and make a new bridge at 9K ohms for a fatter sound? Kinda depends on what sound you want, and what effects and amp you're going through as well. Might be good for chikin pickin, but if you want Clapton or Blackmore darkness, there's choices. Maybe colmax would like to say for what kind of music the guitar is being built?

You need to redo your values.
100nf equals .1uf.
You put down .22 and .47, that should be .022, and .047uf.
And, the pickups were 6k ohms, and 8000 turns.
T

[robthequiet]

Woops. sorry, I stand corrected on values... But 6K even brighter than 8K. So maybe the pup is working per design, so all things equal otherwise, maybe the answer is still more windings to fatten up? I'm also curious about the idea of putting a cap across the pickup + and -. Would that just drop some highs or would it also reduce the output?

[big_teee]

Woops. sorry, I stand corrected on values... But 6K even brighter than 8K. So maybe the pup is working per design, so all things equal otherwise, maybe the answer is still more windings to fatten up? I'm also curious about the idea of putting a cap across the pickup + and -. Would that just drop some highs or would it also reduce the output?

plus it is 12mm between the flats instead of 11mm like normal.
The extra height makes it brighter still.
You're on the right track.
T

[colmax]

I have made new pickups...

bobbin 11mm (My mistake bobbin is 11 mm)
between 7500 and 8500 windings
Cap 0.022

The sound is much better...

I recorded two short clip

But I do not know how to attach clip

I'm still satisfied but I think I'm on the right way to get the sound that I want...

[David Schwab]

Didn't catch the 100n in the original post. A one-hundred nano-Farad capacitor should be marked as 0.1...meaning 0.1uF.

Try a .022mf or take the 100n out of the circuit and see if that helps.

Nice catch John_H

The cap won't do anything unless the tone control is turned down, and on a Strat the bridge pickup doesn't even have one.

Strat pickups sound glassy. Try weaker magnets, like an A2. Or wind more wire.

[colmax]

I put on YouTube

Peavey Blazer 158 (All knobs are at 12 O'Clock) clean channel

[colmax]

Another video

[Richard]

The specs on your new pickups seem pretty similar to your previous set, any guesses as to what is making the difference? I wired up a guitar and used a bad pot once, all the signal went through the treble bleed network. It was quite thin sounding, but in a kinda cool way.

[colmax]

Sorry My mistake bobbin is 11 mm