Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

gear damaged during fire.....

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • gear damaged during fire.....

    You want frustration? I’ve got your frustration right here!

    Last February, I picked up a Bassman 135 for a good price $300-something, I don’t remember exact price. Previous owner played it with 4 mis-matched output tubes, at least one of which was completely dead. It didn’t look like it had ever had any kind of service.

    Mr. Steve "Nevetslab", having just relocated to my neighborhood, was recommended by several on this forum and I brought my amp to him with pretty much an open order – “make it right, keep me informed, but use your best judgment on what needs to be done”.
    A couple of weeks later I received a fully serviced and great sounding amp with a couple of minor upgrades (technical upgrades – bias adjustment, etc. – no attempt to change sound of amp). The service cost doubled my original investment, but the amp was now ‘like new’ and should last the rest of my life. (or not…..)

    I was between serious gigs, so I dragged the amp to some basement / garage jams, but no real rehearsals or shows. Then my apartment building burned down!.... The good news is that the best gear was elsewhere (early 60s Precisions, 65 Ampeg portaflex, etc.) but a reissue Longhorn, an Aguilar TH500 and an Aguilar DB112 cab, along with the Bassman , were in the building.

    Dano reissue with fake tweed case escaped any damage; the plastic gig bag showed major soot and minor melting on outside and was tossed. But the Longhorn was like new – a tiny bit of soot got through the gig bags zipper, but wiped right off the luxurious formica finish.

    TH500 amp was in a computer bag at bottom of closet –once again, bag was ruined, but amp showed zero signs of any impact.

    DB112 cab and Bassman not so lucky. Both were sitting on floor, uncovered. Due to more serious things to deal with after fire, both of these went straight to storage. Pulled the cab last month and was pleasantly surprised at how easy clean up went. Took everything apart except did not remove speaker from baffle board. Cab escaped any fire, heat or water damage, but soot / smoke was extensive. But most seemed to travel by gravity (top down) not by wind, so little blew in sideways. The cloth grill stopped 90% of the soot from reaching speaker cone and surrounding baffle. Tolex is now clean to touch, but is permanently a few shades darker than the matching cabinet that I had at a storage space. Black metal hardware is like new; chrome hardware looks good until compared to other cab which is much brighter / shinier. Didn’t want to test with amp until cleanup was complete and I had the other matching cab at home for comparison. Amp test later this week. I’m betting that cab works fine.

    Brought Bassman home from storage two days ago. It appears to have taken harder hit than bass cab. In addition to the full service that Steve had performed, I had spent several hours gluing down loose tolex flaps, cleaning everything that could be cleaned, etc. It looked almost as nice as it sounded. But now the soot is thick enough that it comes off in chunks on some parts of amp. The tolex is destroyed – not sure if from corrosive components of soot / smoke or ??? (I always wondered about guys that stripped the tolex off of their Fender heads and went for the hardwood look – I may be forced to join them; Can anyone comment on the process of stripping Fender tolex?)

    My plan – dis-assemble everything short of removing chassis from cabinet (unless you really know what you are doing, removing the chassis almost always results in a badly bent front control panel. I’ll leave that step to the professionals) As each piece comes off, it gets cleaned, bagged, labelled and stored away. When I’ve removed every knob, tube, piece of hardware, etc., I will then attempt to clean the cabinet / chassis as best I can. At that point, I will return the amp to Mr. Steve to complete the job. I’m hoping that when he pulls the chassis, that the insides are mostly clean and he can concentrate on powering up the amp and testing to see whether the amp is worth saving or if I should just put my money towards another amp? 135s aren’t as common as they once were and like all other pre-1980 Fenders, the prices are only going in one direction. I’m willing to put in the work and the costs to save this amp but the numbers have to make sense.

    I’ll post updates as progress occurs. Photos: first - as recieved from prior owner with mismatched / dead tubes; second - after full service; third - current condition
    Click image for larger version

Name:	over_time.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	271.2 KB
ID:	870424

  • #2


    would be throwing bad money after good IMHO

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi:

      I have re-furbished a number of Bassman 135's, 100's, 70's and 50's.

      If the chassis is still electrically functional and working, I would deem it fixable.

      As for the wooden box/cabinet the chassis sits in, I would carefully peel off the old (burnt) tolex.
      Remove the back, chassis, side vents, feet, corners, handle and front panel.

      Start with the bottom, then the top. In order to get the top tolex off, you will need to remove the aluminum shield
      stapled to the top of the wooden box. Using a small screw driver and needle nose pliers, slowly pry the staples
      out and save them (do not damage them or lose them - you can hammer them back in after replacing the tolex).
      Then remove the plastic side vents and slowly peel off the side tolex. Use the old pieces as a template for the cutting the new tolex.
      Sand down to a relatively smooth surface (does not have to be perfectly smooth). Then measure, cut and apply the sides, top and bottom.
      ALWAYS - measure twice and think about how it will fix on the wood.

      The hardest thing in my opinion is the back panel (again - use the original as a template for cutting).
      I use a "Empire Magnum Fat Boy 7 in. Aluminum Rafter Square" I bought at Home Depot to cut the 45 degree angles on the back.
      It really, really helps! The oval cutouts - cut along the horizontal center of the oval then the rest will make sense.

      It's a lot of work, but a 135 is a killer amp when setup correctly - it's a beast!


      Check the wood for structural integrity - sometimes the staples loosen-up.

      You could

      Comment


      • #4
        I think it will work. Neither the knobs not handle look like they saw too much heat. I'd be concerned about getting soot inside the amp but aside from that, I think it will work.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lexington125 View Post
          My plan – dis-assemble everything short of removing chassis from cabinet (unless you really know what you are doing, removing the chassis almost always results in a badly bent front control panel. I’ll leave that step to the professionals)
          The copper mesh that shields the top of the chassis can be tricky to deal with but is not unsurmountable. I would guess that amp who rebuilt the amp for you secured the mesh to allow easy removal of chassis.

          Good luck!

          Steve Ahola
          The Blue Guitar
          www.blueguitar.org
          Some recordings:
          https://soundcloud.com/sssteeve/sets...e-blue-guitar/
          .

          Comment


          • #6
            You're much more respectful of your gear than I am. I'd blow off the chunky bits with an air compressor (especially the tube sockets) and see how it sounds.
            I can't see any real obvious damage, the knobs aren't even melted. So I'd expect the innards to be in even better shape.
            All kidding aside, I don't think there will be any big issues getting it running again. Strictly cosmetic issues.
            Originally posted by Enzo
            I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


            Comment


            • #7
              If you don't want to fix it and want to sell it; let me know ...

              Comment


              • #8
                The trick to pulling the chassis without bending the front panel is to make certain that you pull it out straight back. When the chassis gets twisted the front panel rubs up against the Tolex and gets bent out of shape.

                If you are going to completely disassemble the cabinet, then remove the front grill panel first and then loosen the chassis screws. With the front grill out of the way the chassis will drop down and away from the sides and make the chassis removal easy.

                Recovering the cabinet is fairly easy, but time consuming. If you have basic mechanical skills, you shouldn't have any trouble doing it. The hardest part in my opinion is the front edge slit that you need to make where the edge angles back. It's hard to make it look as clean as the guys that did it everyday in the factory.

                The closest staple that I have found that matches the originals is a Duo-Fast 1/4". I wouldn't have the patience to re-use staples.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you're into restoration and keeping it looking factory, by all means, tolex. If you just want a working amp that looks nice, I much prefer truck bed liner. It's easier and more durable. I've had "Line-X" spray lots of boxes and they come out looking really good and it's far less hassle than tolex. You can also get your own cans of it and do it yourself, although I haven't tried that yet.
                  Last edited by The Dude; 03-22-2016, 10:25 PM.
                  "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Post fire amp cleaning questions;

                    I’m going to be working from the outside in: remove a component or piece of hardware, clean it, bag it, add it to the check list and move on to the next piece.

                    Questions about the first few items: (thanks for the earlier tips about the front control panel)

                    • Front panel control knobs - with enough time, some alcohol, q-tips and toothpicks, I’m pretty confident that I can thoroughly clean the black skirted Fender knobs found on Fender amps from around ’64 to ‘80. But as my amp has nine of these things, I don’t look forward to spending 1/2hr each digging through the dozens of little ridges on each knob to scrape out the soot / crud that now fills these ridges. Is there any cleaning solution or other liquid that could quickly dissolve this crud without damaging the knobs? I’m hoping for something where I could fill a pan with an inch or two of liquid, drop in the knobs, swirl it all around for a minute, let it sit for a half hour, then rinse with water. Presto – nine clean knobs in the time it would take to q-tip / toothpick clean a single knob.

                    • Tubes – all new output and preamp tubes were installed and have maybe 2 or 3 hours use on them. Assuming that the soot hasn’t cemented the tubes into their sockets, what is a good way to clean the tubes (without breaking them)? Also, the tech had installed those classy spring loaded tube ‘top-hat’ hold downs. The spring sections are now coated like everything else – anything I can soak them in?

                    • I’m going to jump out of sequence with a tolex question. Something, possibly corrosive components of the soot / smoke seem to be destroying large sections of the tolex. I’ve always wondered about the occasional ‘naked’ Fender amp head without tolex that looks like some strange furniture. I don’t have the temperament to work with tolex, and I can’t get too excited about paying someone to re-cover the amp for me. Any reasons why the naked wood (w/ sealer or oil) isn’t a good idea?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The wood may show scrapes and bumps more or the tolex may cover unsightly joinery but other than that it shouldn't matter, purely cosmetic.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        On the knobs: I've heard of some people throwing them in a basket in the dishwasher. I'm not sure I'd try that, though. I might be afraid the chrome centers would come unglued so......at your own risk. My method is 409 cleaner and a toothbrush. It really doesn't take that long.

                        Tubes can be cleaned with most anything (I use 409 on those also). They're not like halogen bulbs. You needn't worry about residues.

                        Naked wood with sealer is fine if you like that look. The problem may be that the wood isn't in that great of shape if there is fire or water damage. If not, go for it!
                        "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My personal experience is that the original Tolex will be hiding all sorts of problems with the cabinet wood. It may take a few hours of filling gaps at the finger joints to make it look nice.

                          When cleaning the knobs, test whatever cleaner that you use before soaking all of the knobs. Some cleaners will cause the white ink in the numerals to either discolor or to come off.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Completely Agree with Richard!

                            It really depends if you are going to gig it or use it in a studio environment. If you move it around, the wood will start to show scrapes and look ugly.
                            If you get a hard case, it will reduce the damage somewhat, but still get banged up. The black tolex really hides alot of ugly.

                            On the other hand, paying someone to re-tolex it might not be worth it. It is a labor intensive task = $$$.
                            The only cost effective way is if you bite the bullet and do it your self. I am repairing and re-covering a Bassman 100. It's a long and dirty process.
                            The wood was damaged and the staples holding the sides on were very loose. I think this was a rental piece that got tossed around and saw little
                            "love and caring for". The top was also slightly warped and had a few cracks; but it was still fixable.

                            Really it comes down to:
                            1) Do you really love the amp
                            2) Do you have the time and the space to take on such a task (mostly the time) or the money to pay someone to do it for you.

                            Question: Were the plastic side panels damaged by the heat? Are they in good condition?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TigerAmps View Post

                              Question: Were the plastic side panels damaged by the heat? Are they in good condition?
                              Funny......they were the only items that showed clear signs of heat. One of the two has bent so that it looks like someone tried to push it out from the inside. The other is just slightly wavy. Question, how can I flatten the one is badly bulged? All I could think of was to heat it in an oven - very low heat: 140 or 150 F, but then what would be a good way to flatten, and keep it flat while it cools? And I don't know anything about plastic material properties; would it work better if it was cooled quickly? (cold water?)

                              And, as the number of 135 heads with these panels is just about 50% (half of the 135s have them, half don't) I don't see much chance of ever finding a new pair for sale someplace. I've never seen similar panels on any other Fender amp, but I was wondering, do any of the other 135 watt (twin, quad, etc.) models have them?

                              photo of side panel that bulged out: (other side only minor warping)
                              Click image for larger version

Name:	side_before_any_clean_crop.JPG
Views:	1
Size:	130.4 KB
ID:	841416
                              Last edited by lexington125; 03-23-2016, 04:35 PM. Reason: add photo of heat damaged side panel

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X