Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Music Man bass pickup wirings

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I own P2, the second phase of prototyping for the Sabre guitars. Not sure if it has a never released S1 preamp, or the production S2 as it is covered in epoxy. Otherwise it is the Sabre pickups and controls. It is very bright. There is one selection that sounds good, the rest are way too bright or thin. I should get a regular Sabre and compare. If it sounds way different, I likely have the S1 preamp.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Jim Shine View Post
      I own P2, the second phase of prototyping for the Sabre guitars. Not sure if it has a never released S1 preamp, or the production S2 as it is covered in epoxy. Otherwise it is the Sabre pickups and controls. It is very bright. There is one selection that sounds good, the rest are way too bright or thin. I should get a regular Sabre and compare. If it sounds way different, I likely have the S1 preamp.
      Hmm.
      Judging by mr fab's experience, they may be more useful as passive pickups- despite original design intent.
      DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

      Comment


      • #18
        Yeah, I am not about to screw around with a prototype built by Leo and George. Leo likely soldered it himself.

        With that in mind, I have often thought about making alternate preamps that sound better to upgrade the guitars. I have all the original silkscreen art for the PC Boards. I could use the stock design and alter the values.

        Comment


        • #19
          i recall seeing somewhere in the internet world, that someone makes replica sabre guitar and bass preamps without the goop

          yes the guitar is kinda bright... more like a tele on steroids, but the bass and treble controls are really useful, ie treble down and bass up....more gibson like tones, bass down, and treble to taste more fender like. as i said the bright switch makes it overly bright. but overall i think it represents leos next evolution of the fender guitar.

          i have thought many times to alter the bright switch, so that it is useable in some way.... possibly using it to switch the pickups in series
          Last edited by mr fab; 08-10-2016, 01:33 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            now that i think about it, i recall i had a charvel superstrat with a lawrence L500 in the bridge, and i installed a parallel series push pull on that to get single coil like tones, and i never felt that the pickup was weak or overly thin when in single coil mode. that pickup balanced well with the stock singles in the guitar

            Comment


            • #21
              There were multiple Sabre Bass preamps. In theory, there should be multiple Sabre guitar preamps as well as Leo ordered a thousand S1 preamp PC Boards, but went with the S2 in production. I do not have any evidence of JDF assembling the S1's outside of a handful of test pieces, so I don't believe they were ever used. The other issue is that was also happening in the same timeframe the epoxy was stopped. Any S1's that could have possibly gone out would be in the epoxy period, undetectable.

              The biggest misconception with that company is they used like 2-3 preamps across the line. In reality there were 7. Most changes occurred in the epoxy coated era.

              I have been thinking about it and my prototype doesn't have the production wiring..it was never made with the CRL switch. It has mini switches like a Sabre Bass. I guess I should look at it closely and see what the hell they were experimenting with.

              Comment


              • #22
                thats interesting, i never knew that. my brother has an original 78 or 79 sabre bass. maybe i should have a look at the guts of that one too.

                i think leo did a great job with the preamp design, except for that bright switch which is just too trebly

                at one end of the spectrum, its all fender and at the other end its closer to a warm and fat gibson .....never too trebly and never muddy

                when i get a chance i will take a pic of the board in my sabre and post just for your reference.

                the sabre guitars, like the stingrays also came in two versions, 12 inch and 7 inch inch radius necks (Sabre I and Sabre II respectively)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Sabre Basses actually launched in 1979, but the factory built up a pre-production inventory during 1978 (No idea why they didn't launch sooner, the parts were ready in October 78, the catalog Bass was built in December 78, that was the first). I wont have any info on that, but the guitar, if it was made before January 1, 1979, I will have detailed info on it, so if you want it, post or PM me the serial number.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    thanks jim
                    i'll get the info from my brother and let you know

                    as i recall it has a pickup selector switch, bright switch, phase switch, volume, bass and treble controls. maple neck and walnut coloured body

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Cool! Just a FYI, I am not yet offering the log info publicly as it takes a lot of effort to gather all the info. One day I will sort it out and do so. I can tell you the model, color, the day it was assembled, purchase order, invoice, in some eras the initials of the final assembler, any repair history during the CLF Research era, and if repaired, if it was sold it will often have the music store name (CLFR did not deal with sales, so the rest do not feature the info as they were sold to Music Man, which was a different business entity completely).

                      Otherwise, I have files for all of the early years, the materials invoices, where they got stuff, art for PC boards, revisions, and if anybody cared, how much toilet paper they bought...lol. I even have the steno pad maintained during setup to produce the instruments in early 76 with daily to do lists in preparing for production. The only stuff I will not share is PC board art. I have no intention of giving away the materials to build them. But the other stuff, if anyone has MM questions, I can help.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        thanks jim

                        what was your role in the days you were there?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I was never there. When BBE bought the company, they cleared out a storage room that had a lot of junk in it including old, irrelevant files, to make room for production. A smart guy in the complex salvaged it from the dumpster. I ended up with the bulk of it. I also ended up with some other misc items, like P2, and some other prototypical items.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Jim Shine View Post
                            There were multiple Sabre Bass preamps. In theory, there should be multiple Sabre guitar preamps as well as Leo ordered a thousand S1 preamp PC Boards, but went with the S2 in production. I do not have any evidence of JDF assembling the S1's outside of a handful of test pieces, so I don't believe they were ever used. The other issue is that was also happening in the same timeframe the epoxy was stopped. Any S1's that could have possibly gone out would be in the epoxy period, undetectable.

                            The biggest misconception with that company is they used like 2-3 preamps across the line. In reality there were 7. Most changes occurred in the epoxy coated era.

                            I have been thinking about it and my prototype doesn't have the production wiring..it was never made with the CRL switch. It has mini switches like a Sabre Bass. I guess I should look at it closely and see what the hell they were experimenting with.
                            The Sabre bass preamp I examined was basically the same circuit as the Stingray, but with the treble boost switch. Leo was going deaf, so his instruments got brighter and brighter!

                            I make Stingray preamps
                            It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                            http://coneyislandguitars.com
                            www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              There were two Sabre Bass preamps, and Three different Sting Ray Bass in the 70's. Leo may have been going deaf, but he didn't design those things alone. Tom Walker, the real head of Music Man, sat side by side with Leo while designing those preamps.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Jim Shine View Post
                                There were two Sabre Bass preamps, and Three different Sting Ray Bass in the 70's. Leo may have been going deaf, but he didn't design those things alone. Tom Walker, the real head of Music Man, sat side by side with Leo while designing those preamps.
                                Leo was a partner in Music Man, and in fact suggested the name, since he didn't like Tri-Sonix, or I guess Musitek, Inc. Tom Walker was in charge of Music Man amps, not the instruments. Leo Fender and Forrest White (CLF Research) made the guitars and basses.


                                But Tom Walker largely designed the preamp. Leo designed the pickup. I had read a quote from Tom saying that Leo would sit there, strumming the strings, with the amp very loud, and tweaking the preamp until he got what he wanted.

                                You can see a transition in Leo's pickup designs back from the days of Fender. The final one, the G&L MFD is the brightest pickup he designed.
                                It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                                http://coneyislandguitars.com
                                www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X