Neck shaving

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
I have about a 60-70's Kay acoustic guitar. It really mellowed through the years. It has some crazing on the finish and the like. The tone is fabulous however the neck is unbearably thick.
Has anyone ever shaved a neck on such a guitar ?
Thanks for any information in advance.

[Chuck H]

I haven't

But since this is pretty narrow criteria for a question I'm going to add my $.02 anyway... I recall seeing an old Kay busted up. The channel for the support bar (this guitar didn't have a truss rod) was rather large (and deep). I might be concerned if your guitar has a truss rod or seems to have a hollow in the neck because they may have made it that heavy to accommodate a big slot.

[Richard]

Take it to the airport and throw it through the scanner and see how much room you have before you hit the truss rod. There's probably some way to find out what you have. For starters, does it have an adjustable truss rod? I don't know if you can get it X-rayed for a reasonable price, I am sure someone has a way of finding out how much you can take off.

[Chuck H]

You could always drill a miniature hole just off center of the fingerboard and probe it with a needle or a wire. Such a small hole could be patched to pretty much invisible. I once drilled brass dowel to make my own carburetor accelerator pump jets. I don't remember the actual size of the bit I used, but it was tiny.

[Richard]

I was thinking a hole in the back of the neck to find out the clearance but I bet if you knew how much metal is there you could tell by how well a manget sticks to it. A carpenter showed me how he finds nails in drywall with a neodymium magnet.

[riz]

I've had a few of these apart over the years, usually to install carbon fiber reinforcement. It probably has a 1/2"-deep steel bar under the fingerboard (sometimes it's a shallower U-shaped piece). Do yourself a favor, and if you must, carve a soft "V" by removing material from the shoulders instead of the center. It's the shoulder meat that feels "clubby" to our hands anyway, and Kay often left a lot of wood there. Also, since the instrument sounds great already, the tone will change less for the worse IMO if you leave the neck full depth--and stiffer--in the center. If you try to remove much depth you are skating on thin ice IMO. Have fun and good luck with that.

[Richard]

I've had a few of these apart over the years, usually to install carbon fiber reinforcement. It probably has a 1/2"-deep steel bar under the fingerboard (sometimes it's a shallower U-shaped piece). Do yourself a favor, and if you must, carve a soft "V" by removing material from the shoulders instead of the center. It's the shoulder meat that feels "clubby" to our hands anyway, and Kay often left a lot of wood there. Also, since the instrument sounds great already, the tone will change less for the worse IMO if you leave the neck full depth--and stiffer--in the center. If you try to remove much depth you are skating on thin ice IMO. Have fun and good luck with that.

Or we could wait for someone who knows.

[rjb]

Well, I suppose one of us could wander over to one of the guitar builder forums....
I have a pretty nice Harmony Patrician with a clunky chunky neck; my solution is to tell myself that playing it builds character.

[SpareRibs]

Well, I suppose one of us could wander over to one of the guitar builder forums....
I have a pretty nice Harmony Patrician with a clunky chunky neck; my solution is to tell myself that playing it builds character.

I also have a Harmony Broadway, the neck isn't that thick on that one. The Kay is so thick, it is way beyond building character, it has however enhanced my vocabulary quiet a bit.
I have been on quiet a few of the guitar building forums, when I punch in neck shaving, posts come up about shaving the bridge to improve the action.

[rjb]

I also have a Harmony Broadway, the neck isn't that thick on that one.

I don't know how the necks profiles compare, but Harmony Broadways and Patricians are different models. The Harmony Database site indicates most Broadways had non-adjustable steel reinforced necks; FWIW, my Patrician has a functioning truss rod. This is what the peghead looks like.

Broadway H954 guitar - made by Harmony
Patrician H1407 guitar - made by Harmony

Now, once upon a time, I did own an Epiphone Broadway- cherry red, with two mini humbuckers....

The Kay is so thick, it is way beyond building character, it has however enhanced my vocabulary quiet a bit.

I have been on quiet a few of the guitar building forums, when I punch in neck shaving, posts come up about shaving the bridge to improve the action.

Hunh. I would think there would some info on neck shaping. Maybe try different keywords. I could imagine "neck shaving" transferring you to a barbers' forum. Maybe I'll do some looking around.

-rb

[rjb]

Not exactly what your looking for, but here's a guy who converted a mini Strat into an octave mandolin.
He just narrowed the neck with a belt sander, then re-profiled the back with sandpaper.
Easy-peasey.
Randy Cordle

-rb

[SpareRibs]

I don't know how the necks profiles compare, but Harmony Broadways and Patricians are different models. The Harmony Database site indicates most Broadways had non-adjustable steel reinforced necks; FWIW, my Patrician has a functioning truss rod. This is what the peghead looks like.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]40541[/ATTACH]
Broadway H954 guitar - made by Harmony
Patrician H1407 guitar - made by Harmony
Now, once upon a time, I did own an Epiphone Broadway- cherry red, with two mini humbuckers....

Hunh. I would think there would some info on neck shaping. Maybe try different keywords. I could imagine "neck shaving" transferring you to a barbers' forum. Maybe I'll do some looking around.
-rb

Hello,
Thanks, my Broadway is the third one down on the left.
I also pulled up the link about neck shaping. He didn't seem overly concerned about sanding into the truss rod channel. I am thinking the truss rod channel is closer to the fret board, than the back of the neck. Also it would be more of a concern on a Fender neck.

[rjb]

Thanks, my Broadway is the third one down on the left.

Neato-o. I like the crazy black/white purfling and the deco design on the pickguard.

I also pulled up the link about neck shaping. He didn't seem overly concerned about sanding into the truss rod channel. I am thinking the truss rod channel is closer to the fret board, than the back of the neck. Also it would be more of a concern on a Fender neck.

But note that he sanded off the sides & shoulders, leaving the center depth intact.
I would take Riz's advice and stay away from the center of the back.

-rb

EDIT: Have you looked through Stew-Mac's site? They used to have an archive of Dan Erlewine repair videos, and I vaguely remember one of a female luthier shaping a neck (possibly from scratch).

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
I have looked at the guitar again, with all of the advice in mind. I am now thinking, the shoulders of the profile are indeed the problem.
Thank all of for your advice and concern. It helped a great deal.
I will try to upload photo's when I get it complete.

rjb,
The guitar came with that binding, minus the pick guard.

[rjb]

The guitar came with that binding, minus the pick guard.

I've never had an archtop with original pickguard.
I think they were made of celluloid that disintegrates with age.