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Thread: Transformer wire layout help

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    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
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    Transformer wire layout help

    I'm planning on building a marshall style 50 watt amp ,hopefully using 2 5881's or 2 el34 & 3 preamp tubes
    I have this 40 watt Ashdown peacemaker 40 that i would really like to use the trannys from .as this build would not be in the budget without the freebe trannys
    So to get things rolling these trannys powered 4 el84's & 4 12ax7's
    I need some help with the pinout of both the power & output trannys
    Void the yellow arrow /circle ,it's from a previous thread.



    Power transformer
    red & red = heaters 6.3vac
    Blue=
    Blue=
    yellow=
    black=
    yellow=
    I noticed the blue goes to some big electrolytic's maybe the B+
    Yellow goes to diodes..... Rectifier ?
    & black could be a ground

    OUTPUT tranny
    I may have figured out but not 100% about the last 4
    Blue=16ohm
    Yellow=8ohm
    white=4ohm
    Green= Ground or common ? is common the ground ?
    Red=center tap
    Black = Anode
    Brown=Anode 2 ..Please feel free to discuss this

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  2. #2
    Supporting Member loudthud's Avatar
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    The yellow-black-yellow is probably around 24 to 28 VCT. It goes to the regulators and also powers the preamp heaters with DC. The blue-blue is about 240VAC for the high Voltage. This is not center tapped so you'll need a full wave bridge to rectify it, just like the schematic. Red-red (unusual color choice) appears to be 6.3VAC for the power tube heaters. There should be enough current to power two EL34s or 6L6/5881s. I don't see anything to indicate what the PT primary might be. That might be confusing if there are multiple mains Voltage selections.

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    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
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    Here's some pics


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    Supporting Member The Dude's Avatar
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    loudthud has the PT secondary for you. As far as the primary, just wire it like it is in the original amp. Looks like parallel windings for 110-120V operation. Looks like you already have the OT figured out.

    Edit: And yes green is ground.

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    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
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    Great I'm leaning toward building something like this so if we can apply my trannys to this layout

    & I've noticed this amp uses dc heaters as well
    Any help as Loudthud explained the yellow/Black /Yellow or (orange) goes to the regulators & the dc heaters I guess that is the small board to the far left ?

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    Supporting Member loudthud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperheadroads View Post
    Any help as Loudthud explained the yellow/Black /Yellow or (orange) goes to the regulators & the dc heaters I guess that is the small board to the far left ?
    No, that board is a Voltage Doubler meant to run from a 5VAC heater winding and convert it to 6VDC.

    The Ceriatone layout also uses a center tapped winding for the B+. That won't work with your transformer.

    Your transformer has about 24VAC center taped and after the regulators creates plus and minus 12.6VDC. Your transformer could be wired to make a single 12.6VDC supply if you don't need the +/- supplies for the solid state stuff.

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    Thanks for the help
    I will have to do some research on what to do with the heaters for the preamp tubes
    I guess wiring it more like a traditional JCM800 wont help me much . I wonder if there is enough amps in the 6.3v winding to supply all the tubes with AC ? like the jcm layout
    I may stick with a traditional layout as well

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  8. #8
    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
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    This project has taken a turn as I have ordered transformers for my marshall build so that gives me this for another future build ,Just wondering if i could use these trannys for a amp with a rectifier tube like a bassman or similar .

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  9. #9
    Supporting Member loudthud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperheadroads View Post
    Just wondering if i could use these trannys for a amp with a rectifier tube like a bassman or similar .
    You can use a tube rectifier, but you will need two silicon diodes to complete the bridge because the transformer has no center tap on the HV winding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
    You can use a tube rectifier, but you will need two silicon diodes to complete the bridge because the transformer has no center tap on the HV winding.
    Ok... Thats works ...
    What would you do with the Yellow /black/Yellow wires tape them off ?

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    Supporting Member loudthud's Avatar
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    I thought you wanted to use the Yellow/black/Yellow winding for preamp DC heaters. The 6.3V might not have enough current for EL34s and four 12AX7. I forgot to mention you will need 5VAC for a rectifier tube. No 5V winding on the transformer.

    Tape is not a great idea for an unused winding. Heat shrink tubing is safer, just get the right size and shrink it tight so it won't fall off.

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    This is a build or 2 away but suggestions on what to build . Love to do some sort of bassman circuit with a tube rectifier but with no 5v winding on the tranny . would either a 6v rectifier tube like a 18 watt marshall ez81 has or a dc rectifier be possible

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    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
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    Ok getting back to this build or conversion my plans may of changed on what circuit as i'm gonna be building a 2 6l6 power section & 3 or 4 preamp section of some sort of amp with no fancy rely switching channels & possibly a single channel
    so to get the DC heater circuit started Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm assuming it's 15vac from the transformer i am assuming the +12.8v & -12.5v are the heaters ,PL2 would work for the 12vdc pilot light ?
    & in this schematic what is the CHI ? at the end of circuit

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  14. #14
    Supporting Member loudthud's Avatar
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    CHI might be a connection to the chassis.

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    Ok Great so i guess I'm on the right track

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  16. #16
    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
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    I created a small board layout for the regulator for the DC preamp heaters
    Click image for larger version. 

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  17. #17
    Supporting Member loudthud's Avatar
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    Check the data sheets on the pin-out of the three terminal regulators. The positive and negative versions do not have the same pin-out. They will need some kind of heat sink. This needs to be part of the layout.

    Check the size of the electrolytic caps you intend to use. They will likely be much larger than your layout shows.

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    I was hoping on using the stock ic 7912 v& the 7812 along with the heat sinks ...i did have trouble sourcing them as an alternative in case the original's failed .
    According the the schematic no cap values no more than 25v .. I will run through the physical board itself . & let you know

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    Woodgrinder/Pickupwinder copperheadroads's Avatar
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    Using this amp as the basis ,I've decided to attempt to build a TrainWreck express using 2 5881 tubes for the power section & the DC heater circuit .
    My Question is about the full wave bridge as i have no center tap, In the Ashdown schematic ,I see there some small caps & a 220k resistor before the filter caps ,I guess this is necessary part of the Full wave bridge ?
    Here's the layout & schematic Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	45333 & the Ash down schematic Click image for larger version. 

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    Consider the 220K as a bleeder resistor (for first cap) and the 4n7 caps as noise suppression for the diodes.
    Neither are necessities or really part of a bridge, but both are useful additions.

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    Supporting Member loudthud's Avatar
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    It is unclear which 220K you are talking about. There is one that is part of the bias Voltage generator. That bias Voltage circuit won't work when a full wave bridge rectifier is used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
    It is unclear which 220K you are talking about. There is one that is part of the bias Voltage generator. That bias Voltage circuit won't work when a full wave bridge rectifier is used.
    looks like R87 maybe just before (left) of the first 47uf filter cap

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    Yes, R87 is just a bleeder for the cap. But take note of what loudthud said, the bias circuit will not work with a bridge, you will have to find a different source for bias voltage. How does the Ashdown in your example do it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by loudthud View Post
    There is one that is part of the bias Voltage generator. That bias Voltage circuit won't work when a full wave bridge rectifier is used.
    what would we need to do ?

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    Supporting Member loudthud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperheadroads View Post
    what would we need to do ?
    Basically, you need a capacitor instead of the 220K. Here is an example, bias circuit is on page 2: http://el34world.com/charts/Schemati...0-02-iss14.pdf

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    Sorry I'm not seeing it in the schematic ,,I will do some more research .

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    Look at the D5 sector of the schematic (pg2). Cap is C12. WH point comes off the power transformer.

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    Thanks I did look at that
    Wouldn't this be a similar schematic Click image for larger version. 

Name:	cap_coupled_bias_supply2 - Copy.jpg 
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    At the bottom of the page
    Capacitor Cupled Bias Supply
    http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/bias.html

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  29. #29
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    Yes, very similar. That will get you a bias supply without a CT in your HV winding.

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    Here's the Chassis , Click image for larger version. 

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    My plan was to to cover larger holes that are towards the center & install my turret or eyelet board in that area & possibly drill holes (atleast one new hole ) for the power tubes , but I am not liking how close V1 will be to the Output transformer this build will have dc heaters on the preamp tubes . I wonder would if it be better if i move the OT up next to the power transformer , this is a combo amp but i think there is enough room to move the OT next to the PT .let me know what you guys think ?

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    Master Destroyer nosaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copperheadroads View Post
    Here's the Chassis , Click image for larger version. 

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    My plan was to to cover larger holes that are towards the center & install my turret or eyelet board in that area & possibly drill holes (atleast one new hole ) for the power tubes , but I am not liking how close V1 will be to the Output transformer this build will have dc heaters on the preamp tubes . I wonder would if it be better if i move the OT up next to the power transformer , this is a combo amp but i think there is enough room to move the OT next to the PT .let me know what you guys think ?
    They have things to pop into unused holes. I'll post some pics tomorrow in this thread.

    nosaj

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    Master Destroyer nosaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosaj View Post
    They have things to pop into unused holes. I'll post some pics tomorrow in this thread.

    nosaj
    Got them from a radio shop closeout.
    They just pop in.

    nosajClick image for larger version. 

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    Getting some of the components ready to order over the weekend ,I was thinking of possibly drilling new holes for the 5881's & using the back holes for the preamp tubes/sockets .covering over the center sockets with some sort of alloy plate .

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