Fix an amp just enough to sell it

[Randall]

Guy comes in today. Represents as one of the biggest dealers in the area of vintage guitars and amps. Mostly interested in flipping gear. Brings me a Bassman AB165 that looks like a problem child. Doesn't want to spend much because he wants to flip it. It has obviously shot filter caps, a blown fuse, and mildew on the board. I tell him I must do the filter caps, and AC cord ( the death cap is shorted and there is 125vac on the chassis). He agrees, but no more than that.

I get the filter caps and Ac cord and death cap addressed, and find there are some other issues. I take care of those because I cannot stand to send an amp out with issues that I know of after I have serviced an amp. These extra fixes are on my own time because I quoted him the price of $150 to do the filter caps and AC cord and cleaning (it was bad) . I ended up fixing a bad ground in the first channel causing a hum, fixing the weird bias resistors in this circuit ( one tube was drawing 80mA). Balancing the biasing it so the one tube didn't cause the China Syndrome. And some other things

I wonder how others deal with customers who only want to do minimal repairs to flip gear, and how you feel this exposes you to liability as well as reputation. This is the first time I have dealt with this, and I don't like it.

[Jazz P Bass]

Personally, I would not have taken the job.

People like that will 'milk you' again & again.

[DrGonz78]

I had the same problem with an amp that I serviced. My client wanted to fix the obvious stuff that had blown out: a few caps, replace tube socket and re-tube. At that point the amp sounded great or at least it worked again. That was what my guy had asked of me and wanted it to be just those items covered to keep costs down. Then later I get a call from my clients work associate about a troublesome pot sound. He was curious why I did not replace the pot and I let him know that was not part of the repair I was asked to do. Sure I told him that I cleaned out the pot but since it still worked pretty good I was told to leave it alone. Of course "my client" did not have the nerve to call me himself to ask about the issue, something he was aware of already, and instead handed the call off to another worker. So this other guy is questioning my integrity of the repair based on half truths. So he thinks I did crap work when in actuality I was only authorized to do part of the job. The whole job would have costed more than the client wanted to pay. So yes people like that are a pain in the ass!! Randall, if you did not do those "extra fixes" and gave the amp back then you would have gotten that call. However, your extra fixes were very significant "Problems" compared to the one's in my story above. I can just tell you that people who are into flipping amps like this will probably lie to the person and say they had someone "Your Company Name" do a complete service on the amp. Now the question is do you want to be doing charity work for the amp's sake and allowing these guys to take the profit they don't deserve?

[pdf64]

Yes, you may not want to turn away a potentially big customer but you need to be aware that your invoice is likely to be used in the marketing of the amp.
So it may be best to avoid ambiguous words like 'service' and just document the work that was agreed on.
Perhaps also note concerns that weren't addressed, such as the mildewed board.
And keep a copy of it, just in case you're dealing with a real shark and it gets photoshopped.

[Enzo]

I cannot stop a seller from making up a fake repair order, but if my integrity is tested like that my repair order looks like this.


Replaced frayed power cord and leaking capacitors. Cleaned jacks and controls, and adjusted bias per customer. Advised customer control needed replacement, power tubes were badly worn and should be replaced. Customer declined those repairs. Shop warranty only covers work performed.

[Mick Bailey]

I've had plenty of requests to do bare-minimum work to flip an amp. Mainly the equipment concerned is old and has been run until it dies. Often there's an accumulation of bodged repairs and things that should have been done but weren't. For me a repair is to fix a specific fault, or narrow range of faults. Beyond that the work begins to run into restoration. If all of the work isn't attended to, then there's a high chance of the job bouncing back. Technically (in the UK) the contract is between the seller and the buyer, but when things go wrong you can guarantee your name will be in there as the person who fixed it.

I would rather not take in a job where there's any economical constraint that limits what the amp needs (as opposed to what the owner/dealer needs). I'm prepared to throw in some extra time and low-value parts if they're incidental to the work and don't pull the income down too much. That's usually covered in my estimate 'headroom'. An amp is either 100% working or it isn't, so anything that isn't done needs to be covered as per Enzo's comment. That is, unless there are safety-critical issues that have to be sorted and can't be left.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I wonder how others deal with customers who only want to do minimal repairs to flip gear, and how you feel this exposes you to liability as well as reputation. This is the first time I have dealt with this, and I don't like it.

Another chance to lecture said customers on the "onion peel effect". Fix the top layer of problems, find another layer below, repeat ad infinitum until the amp is truly working, crying all the way.

One sort of solution: I ask the customer, whether one of these aggravating gear-flippers or not, to set a DNX = Do Not Exceed price. Because there's things that are easily seen like frayed AC cables & goop-leaking filter caps, and those not so easily seen, that need some analysis & time to fix. And sometimes lots of $$$. What happens if there's a shot transformer? or TWO??? Best to determine that early on, and have a minimum bench charge in case amp-flipper wants to back out of the repair. They're a load of laffs aren't they, carry on like Ralph Kramden "Alice we're gonna make a million bucks!"

I've even had a couple of winners who wanted me to fix whatever crap they found on craigslist, ebay or whatever, I fix it, then WAIT until they sell it to collect. No. deal.

And there is that reputation thing to think about. I've seen my name attached to items on craigslist, presumably somebody thinks that gives their for-sale gear an extra dose of kwality. Sure, LeoGnardo worked on it. Maybe 25 years ago and it needs an overhaul again. Or maybe just enough fixit to prop it up so it won't catch fire when the seller demonstrates it to potential buyer. What really burns my bippy is when a potential buyer of such gear calls and quizzes me about what I did and whether the deal is a good one. Am I really expected to rifle thru records and then try to recollect some particular amp from years ago? For free? Well the good side is, sometimes those amps find their way back here with new owners who become happy crustomers. It's all part of the soup.

[The Dude]

If I get such a customer- one that only wants something "partially fixed", I usually note on the invoice the other problems I found but didn't fix- with a note, "Not repaired at customer's request". That way, it's apparent to a buyer that there are problems and It wasn't me that missed them.

[rockinrob]

The problem is that once you've touched it, they'll flip it and say - "It's in great working condition, Mr. Tech just fully went through it last week - everything is solid!"

I like the idea of adding the refused repairs to the invoice....

[The Dude]

Another advantage to listing repairs that were not completed at the customer's request is that if he decides to do the other repairs later, he can't blame you for not doing them in the first place.

For example: Some time ago, I had a customer bring in a Mackie VLZ board. He wanted one of the channels fixed. Those of you who have worked on these know that there are not separate channel strips and repairing anything requires taking off all the knobs, jack nuts/screws, etc. It's quite time consuming. I found a couple of bad faders in addition to the original problem and told the guy that now was the time to replace them. It would save him the labor of tearing the board down again in the future. The only additional cost would be the price of the additional faders. He declined and opted to fix only the non-working channel. A few months later he comes back and expects me to replace the faders for just the cost of the faders. I explained that I would have to charge him to tear the entire board down again and he would have to pay labor again. Fortunately, I could look up the old invoice and show him that we had already had a discussion about it and that it wasn't my fault.
My point is that making these notes not only protects other buyers, but you can also protect yourself.

[olddawg]

I never did "partial" repairs with the exception of an emergency situation (like someone with a show that night)..... And when I did I would write "Partial Repair No Waranty" on the invoice and have the customer sign it.

[Enzo]

I also write serial numbers. A long time ago, a guy bought a pair of PA speakers from our store, and later brought one in for service. I forget just what was wrong, it was a speaker. I fixed it, he took it home. Then the next day he brought it back saying it still wasn't fixed. I determined what was wrong, and also determined the serial number had changed. I pointed out the serial number on the original work order, and it did not match this one. I had the added advantage of going to the sales floor and looking up his original purchase, it showed both serial numbers, the one I first fixed, and the one he now presented. I charged him for the second repair.

[The Dude]

Yep, I also put serial numbers on the invoice for that reason and for insurance purposes. If your shop ever gets broken into, the insurance company is going to want the serial numbers of what was stolen.

[Drewline]

I too always put the serial number on the customers receipt as well as my invoice. I list every loose item left with the repair if I can't persuade the customer to take it with him.
In regards to partial repairs, I won't do them unless it is a repeat customer where we have an understanding as to exactly what will or will not be serviced. The invoice details the actual work done as well as the additional work not done.

[Tom Phillips]

... I list every loose item left with the repair if I can't persuade the customer to take it with him...

It is also prudent to list what was not received such as:
"Amp received without footswitch"
"Back panels missing"
and more. Especially important for valuable vintage amps.
Those who have been doing amp repairs for a while will instantly know why.
Tom