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  • Here's a good one for you

    Anyone know what pickups were standard equiptment on the Dallas Tuxedo?
    sigpic Dyed in the wool

  • #2
    Hi Spence. Looks similar to the Fenton Weills that Adeson makes so he may know history, but I will give Reg who runs the Watkins site a call tomorrow as he can ask Charlie who probably will know. The old guy is still alive and still got all his marbles.

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    • #3
      Just a thought! the Dallas was sold through Berry pianos in the uk and I bought a Vox Soloist from them in the fifties and that had the same pickups so who was making them.

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      • #4
        Henry Weill made the electronics for the Dallas Tuxedo. Weill was an early partner of Jim Burns in Burns-Weill guitars, so I woulb't be surprised if they aren't a lot like Burns Trisonics, or like the repros Adeson makes.

        The Dallas Tuxedo was made by Watkins/Wem Guitars.
        It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


        http://coneyislandguitars.com
        www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jonson View Post
          Just a thought! the Dallas was sold through Berry pianos in the uk and I bought a Vox Soloist from them in the fifties and that had the same pickups so who was making them.
          Yep, that was Watkins/WEM.

          http://www.watkinsguitars.co.uk/history.htm
          It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


          http://coneyislandguitars.com
          www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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          • #6
            Sorry David but the Dallas tuxedo was designed by Dick Sadleir and built by the John Dallas company which later became Dallas Arbiter and beat Charlies first guitars by one week. The first Tuxedos had what looked like a Hofner pickup from a soundhole or fingerboard fit set into the body.
            Attached Files

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jonson View Post
              Sorry David but the Dallas tuxedo was designed by Dick Sadleir and built by the John Dallas company which later became Dallas Arbiter and beat Charlies first guitars by one week. The first Tuxedos had what looked like a Hofner pickup from a soundhole or fingerboard fit set into the body.
              You're absolutely right... they weren't made by WEM.

              However I found this...

              Dallas Tuxedo
              Dating from about 1957 with electrics by Henry Weill's company, and marketed by Dallas Arbiter of London, this was the UK's first electric guitar and also Martin Barre's (Jethro Tull) first guitar! A 2 pick-up version was found in John Lennon's Woolton home in 1996.





              Boy, the head is almost bigger than the body!
              It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


              http://coneyislandguitars.com
              www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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              • #8
                Shit I still love all that old stuff but then it was my heritage. 11 guinea's (eleven pounds eleven shillings) in kit form or £14 gdp if it was ready built back in 1959. Nice to see your working on some good (ahem!) Brit classics Spence.

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                • #9
                  Now, the two photos that Jonson's shown have different pickups. The white one has a retro fitted Rogers jazz pickup in it which was designed to be floating and therefore mounted to the neck of a guitar. The interesting thing about these pickups is that they were air colis with a twist. The base of the case had a metal spacer through which the adjusting screws go and either side of this spacer were alnico chips glued into the bottom on which the coil sat. The coil was wrapped in a celluloid tape which often breaks down and burns through the coil insulation.

                  But in any case the original pickups seem to be poorly documented as do the guitars themselves. I like the guitars so much that I have been thinking about recreating the guitar but with some more useable features. The pickups would be something that would only get recreated if I thought they would sound good enough which is why I'm looking for some originals to try out.
                  sigpic Dyed in the wool

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                  • #10
                    I was looking at a web page last night showing the inside of a bunch of different Hofner pickups. It's amazing how all the pickups these days are based on Fender and Gibson designs, but the other pickups from the 50's and 60's were quite unique.

                    It's a shame when you see a company like Eastwood making cool replicas of the funky old guitars, and then they stick some generic Gibson style humbucker or P-90 in them. I'd love to have a Strat with three gold foil Dearmond/Rowe pickups on it. Much cooler sounding pickups.

                    I've been wanting to make some replicas of some of the more interesting old electrics like Eko, Fenton Weill, Kawai/Teisco, etc.

                    My very first bass was a Kawai Concert.... looked just like the black guitar in this picture... same color and all. Then I had an orange 'burst Norma violin bass, and one of these funky Sekova guitars with one pickup for each string. Mine was a gold top.

                    Boy, just give me a Teisco MayQueen and I'll be happy.
                    Attached Files
                    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                    http://coneyislandguitars.com
                    www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Spence. Few interesting facts but some you may well know. Rogers pups
                      From Roger Rossmeisl in Germany before he went to Gibsons Fenders and Rickenbackers and there was a tie up with Hofner at one time. The pup you are looking at is the same as the Hofner that you could buy as you said with the legs to attach to the end of the fingerboard and I have had several of these in the past. Flat plate, Air coil.Grey green wrinkle finish painted box underneath to hold the works and star slotted pole screws straight through.
                      Not sure if you will find a Rogers out there but the Hofner if somebody has got one will be a good start. Few pics for you.
                      Attached Files

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                      • #12
                        I wound a new aircoil for the type you show in the far right photo a few months ago. Exactly as you describe. It had been refused by just about every other pickup repairer until they came to me. I was a little hesitant because of the rivets holding it together but it all worked out in the end.
                        But in any case, they were not fitted as standard to the Dallas Tuxedo. To be honest, I'll probably end up fitting a tele neck pickup, a formvar wired strat middle pickup and a Gibsonesque mini humbucker in the bridge with something like a Wilkinson trem. That is unless I can make my own pickup housings for aircoils. Only thing is I intend to avoid sounding like Brian May.
                        Last edited by Spence; 10-15-2007, 08:16 PM.
                        sigpic Dyed in the wool

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                        • #13
                          Bunch Of smart asses you guys are! Cool shit man....Fuel for the mind!!

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                          • #14
                            Hi Spence, beginning to make a bit of sense at last. Talked to a couple of old timers (Charlie Watkins still ok but been a bit vague lately but then the old guy is in his mid 80s) and didn't come up with a Dallas but did come up with a Broadway by Henry Weill. Same pick ups as the Dallas standard and the Fenton Weill Apache (got one of them) The Vox Stroller(thought mine was a soloist but isn't) and a couple of others. Look the same as the repros that Ade does and Henry Weill may have done the electrics but the pups were bought in and rebranded usually complete on a scratchplate from Japan. Guyatone. Which looking at some of their models I think the Vox bodies and necks and probably a few other makes came out of that factory as well. If you are thinking of having a go I can get all the specs of the Broadway pups and the ones on mine. As to Hofners I just bought (cost me a whole £1) what looks like a peatbog shovel with a pair of early 5186 Hofner pups on it which look like the same guts as the one you rewound and they are working so you can have a look at them as well or as you say just stick on a couple of modern pups. Worry about the Brian May thing as well cus you could end up with Anita Dobson thrown in and you'd have to get drunk and get the gun out again.

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                            • #15
                              Hi Steve, well I'll give you a call. I need to send you those PAF covers of mine too and I'll tell you about Anita Dobson, Wapping and her Renault Fuego sometime.

                              BTW, perhaps we should do an interview with Charlie now his memory is failing and get him to swear that he invented the PAF and wound them with a spinning Jenny.
                              sigpic Dyed in the wool

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