The King is tone deaf!

[rjb]

I don't know about everyone but I run my iron at 750 degrees F. I'm lightning quick....

Well...
I've got an "adustable temperature" Weller station that you adjust by changing tips. The available tip temperatures are 600F, 700F, and 800F, the "standard" being 700F. I may not be lightning quick, but my dwell time for pot terminals is under a second. I've used the standard tip for boatloads of 24mm pots... no problem. Pickup coil wires... no problem. Through-hole PCBs... no problem. Bournes 16mm pots with push-pull switch... big problem.
Just sayin'.

-rb

[rjb]

Eureka(???)

If your schematic shows the actual pickup configuration, they are hooked up wrong.
The coils should be wired in series, not parallel.
The red and green wires should be soldered and taped off.
(In the photo, I can't tell what color wires are connected to the switch.)

Thunder'Blade - Clear, Bold and Smooth - TV Jones
Note: Shipped with 4 conductor wiring – ready for standard 2 conductor hook-up. Red and green wires are soldered and taped off for standard wiring - send red and green wires to ground for splitting coils. Splitting coils is not recommended for the Thunder'Blade due to lower coil power (but will work), however, it is convenient for custom switching. Example: where coils from other pickups are combined in series, or parallel.

-rb

[rjb]

Degrees of Separation

Questions:
1) Is the "King" bass guitar under discussion a David King bass guitar?
2) Is that David King the same as MEF member David King?
3) If so, can he shed some light on this topic?

-rb

[Sowhat]

If your schematic shows the actual pickup configuration, they are hooked up wrong.
The coils should be wired in series, not parallel.
The red and green wires should be soldered and taped off.
(In the photo, I can't tell what color wires are connected to the switch.)

Thunder'Blade - Clear, Bold and Smooth - TV Jones
Note: Shipped with 4 conductor wiring – ready for standard 2 conductor hook-up. Red and green wires are soldered and taped off for standard wiring - send red and green wires to ground for splitting coils. Splitting coils is not recommended for the Thunder'Blade due to lower coil power (but will work), however, it is convenient for custom switching. Example: where coils from other pickups are combined in series, or parallel.

-rb

As far as the pickup images, those are just an image clip from another schematic that looked about right, I make my schematics in AutoCAD and I have a whole pile of schematics I've made over the years that I cut and paste from, I think the pickup images are from an old Les Paul diagram.

That's very interesting because these Thunderblades are 2 conductor pickups not 4 conductor ones. I will have to pull them from the body and take a look at the specifics, I can't imagine that someone replaced the whole pickup cable all the way into the pickup housing with some single conductor armor shielded push back cable. Maybe Thunderblades used to come as 2 wire and these ones are just the old style but this is something I now need to check out... 4KDC windings... stranger and stranger.

[Sowhat]

Well...
I've got an "adustable temperature" Weller station that you adjust by changing tips.

I use one of those Hakko stations with an adjustable temperature control power unit. With the increasing amount of SMD work that comes my way I have a lot of different tips for special access situations but they are not temperature dependent, it's size and shape. As a result of my micro work I have come to use a flux syringe more and more to manage solder flow and wetting. This all of course is done using a microscope to see what I'm doing. I use a hot air station as much as I do a soldering station these days. I'm supposed to be enjoying my golden years of retirement but it seems I'm turning into Buck Rodgers.

[Sowhat]

Questions:
1) Is the "King" bass guitar under discussion a David King bass guitar?

That's an interesting question, as I remember, the only marking on the entire bass is just "King" on the headstock.

[J M Fahey]

Stop chasing ghosts (do that later)
Today, get a .05 cap , solder one leg to ground, the other to output jack "hot" but through a switch, then switch on-off.
Previously disconnect current tone cap, or disconnect tone pot from the signal line.

1) Does sound change or not?

2) Where are you plugging your Bass into?

Please answer these 2 questions.

[Sowhat]

Stop chasing ghosts (do that later)
Today, get a .05 cap , solder one leg to ground, the other to output jack "hot" but through a switch, then switch on-off.
Previously disconnect current tone cap, or disconnect tone pot from the signal line.

1) Does sound change or not?

2) Where are you plugging your Bass into?

Please answer these 2 questions.

Today is my day off, but tomorrow I'll see about this. There's been a lot of conversation on this during my time away from the shop and I have not been near the thing since Saturday. I use my test amp to test guitars, and basses, I made it myself many years ago... it's tested a lot of gear. You do know I have already tried a 100nf cap with no detectable results as well as 10,22,33,47 and 68nf. I'm going to go for a full microfarad and see what happens... but tomorrow, today I'm kicking back under the glow of the solar eclipse.

The home made test amp is basically a 60's style bassman cobbled together out of spare parts.

[rjb]

Since we're leaving no stone unturned, what's the cable capacitance?

Never mind,
-rb

[Dave H]

I have already tried a 100nf cap with no detectable results as well as 10,22,33,47 and 68nf. I'm going to go for a full microfarad and see what happens...

To test the wiring and pot you could try shorting out the cap and check to make sure that turning down the tone pot mutes the output.

[Sowhat]

O.K. guys... here's the tale of the tape. This morning when I opened up the shop I went right to the bass and started what-iffing while I sipped my Starbucks Viente Iced Mocha... it's a bad habit! In the final analysis I used 141nf (3 47nf's in parallel) to get some tone out of the King. In over 50 years of doing this stuff I have never ever used so much capacitance to make a tone control operate. This is just crazy. Am I curious enough to track down the nitty gritty details of why this is? Not really, I'm just going to button this one up and get it off the bench because there's other customers waiting. Thanks for all the suggestions and encouragement, it's nice to talk to sympathetic ears every once and a while, It has a tendency to clear ones mind and open it up to things that you just simply miss or don't think about.

[J M Fahey]

*Please* answer:

Today, get a .05 cap , solder one leg to ground, the other to output jack "hot" but through a switch, then switch on-off.
Previously disconnect current tone cap, or disconnect tone pot from the signal line.

1) Does sound change or not?

and

To test the wiring and pot you could try shorting out the cap and check to make sure that turning down the tone pot mutes the output.

You are focusing only on cap value, we want to check pot and wiring which may still be wrong.
Throw pickup impedance and load in the mix.

PLEEEAAASSSSEEEEEEEE????????????????????

[Sowhat]

*Please* answer:

and


You are focusing only on cap value, we want to check pot and wiring which may still be wrong.
Throw pickup impedance and load in the mix.

PLEEEAAASSSSEEEEEEEE????????????????????

I don't tell you everything I do here and maybe that's a mistake but there's actually a lot of details. I have replaced the pot with several other known new and good ones, I think I mentioned that already, maybe not. I have switched the circuit around, I have jumpered around the cap and the pot and done everything conceivable to eliminate variables. The only thing that worked was to raise the capacitance to 141nf and that did the trick. I didn't get into the truss adjustments, level, crowning and polish, control panel cover fabrication, action, intonation and relief setups or the nut modifications, or the strap lock installations or the general grungy condition of this bass upon receipt because that's not relevant. I guess I didn't answer your questions properly and for that I apologize. Here's the answers: 1. Does sound change or not? I used at one time or another a 47 and a 68nf cap either in place or directly on the signal line to ground and you specify a .05 cap, which I interpret as a .05 microfarad cap which is a 50 nanofarad cap and although I don't have any 50nf caps... I don't know that they even make those, 47 or 68 is close enough so the answer is no. 2. Where are you plugging your bass into.... I think I actually answered that one already as well. It gets plugged into a tried and true test amplifier that hundreds upon hundreds of other guitars, basses, keyboards and whatnot have been plugged into for testing over the years... I've even used it on gig's a few times.

I'm not getting testy with this reply and I do really appreciate your input and suggestions but this ship has now sailed, the customer picked it up, tried it out, gladly payed for it and is happy as a little girl!

[rjb]

Beating a Dead Bass

In the final analysis I used 141nf (3 47nf's in parallel) to get some tone out of the King. In over 50 years of doing this stuff I have never ever used so much capacitance to make a tone control operate. This is just crazy.

Makes sense, really.

Compare:

PBass: 6.4 Henries
Fender Original 1962 P Bass Pickup | Musician's Friend

vs

ThunderBlade: 2.8 Henries (bridge), 1.7 Henries (neck)
Thunder'Blade - Clear, Bold and Smooth - TV Jones

-rb

[Sowhat]

Makes sense, really.


Ref:
PBass: 6.4 Henries
Fender Original 1962 P Bass Pickup | Musician's Friend

vs

ThunderBlade: 2.8 Henries (bridge), 1.7 Henries (neck)
Thunder'Blade - Clear, Bold and Smooth - TV Jones

-rb

When the customer picked up this bass he said that the tone never worked since he bought the thing... like I suspected, a design flaw. Thanks so much for your research. Here's a final parting shot...