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  • #31
    Originally posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    Damn right. And I don't compromise. I have this fight every so often when I get asked to play at church. They've all moved on to "profiling" "amps." I refuse. An ability to program every possible parameter is too safe for me. And I would rather not play than sell myself out.

    Justin
    I haven't played a modeling amp in a long time. I remember hating them. It didn't feel quite right (I mean in playing response, not in my head) and the tone was sort of "safe" sounding. Maybe they've gotten better. I may never know.
    "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
    You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

    Comment


    • #32
      Just say no to modelling amps. I've never plugged into one of them, not even a Pod.
      "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

      "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

      Comment


      • #33
        Bob and Chuck,

        I've played a Line 6 Flextone and a few Pods, a Vibro-Champ XD, and I've heard the "best" Kemper has to offer. I am yet to be impressed by any of them, the VCXD being the best of the lot... I think as a recording tool, or as a substitute for blasting your Orange Graphic 120 at 1:00a.m., they are passable. Maybe in a huge room where you've got a giant PA, too. But in a small to medium sized gig, where a real amp could do the job, they just don't cut through a mix. And if they do, they just hurt. They have software crashes, and there's just something thoroughly FAKE about being able to program every single parameter with no errors. As Bob said, "safe." Boring.

        I think the old adage is true: "Real Amps Have Knobs, Not Buttons." Add "hard drives and USB ports" to that.
        We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it.

        Justin
        "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
        "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
        "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

        Comment


        • #34
          Most bands play covers to drunk people. When I toured with a horn band, not one person ever came up to us and said "Gee you really nailed Terry Kath on that Chicago tune." Nor did anyone ever say we didn't. In another band, we played Jimi with a Vox fuzz instead of a Fuzz Face. No one cared.

          The crowd wants you to sound more or less like the record. That crummy little modeler box gets you close, then it did its job.

          I don't much care for them either, they remind me of those 100 patch DOD pedals with all the over the top effects. But to me, the gig is about the audience, not about me.
          Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

          Comment


          • #35
            > But to me, the gig is about the audience, not about me.

            Enz, you're the consummate professional. Not everyone considers appeasing a drunk to be the barometer of their success.


            > We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it.

            You're after chaos, nsubulyssees is a vigilante and I'm an anarchist.

            We really should form a band.
            Last edited by bob p; 12-18-2017, 12:23 AM.
            "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

            "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

            Comment


            • #36
              I guess this is only marginally related to modeling amps; perhaps "tangentially" is a better word...

              I am not usually gigging for drunks. It's usually churches, family events, nursing homes, etc. I find people are excited for something new, and they want WARMTH. No one has ever criticized us for "butchering" songs by doing them in the wrong key or not having the "right" sounds or playing the parts right. Usually we get praised for being different. Maybe being a copy is an easier thing (obviously I'm not talking Dream Theater or Yes here) than creating something new... what they like is the way we OWN the songs we play, make them our own, relatable to their own lives, or some strange intangible thing like that...

              We also walk in knowing that Every. Single. Note. is a solitary moment in time that can never ever be duplicated again. If so much as one single speck of dirt is different, so is the whole room experience. That's not something to be feared. We embrace our audience and say, "this is OUR time, that was theirs. We're in this space together, and let's live for now."

              I find people want a song to be recognizable enough that they can participate, but have no issue with newness. Call me too philosophical, call me a hopeless romantic, but it's how I try to play every time.

              Hmmmm... maybe I could just say, there's no reason the gig can't be about every person involved...

              Justin
              "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
              "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
              "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Justin Thomas View Post
                It's usually churches, family events, nursing homes, etc.
                I'm not being critical, but this is sure an odd choice of venues for someone with your love of volume.
                My neighbour that can't stand wearing his hearing aids would probably really like it though!
                Originally posted by Enzo
                I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                Comment


                • #38
                  I agree with Enzo. And I don't Lemme splain.

                  I've done several gigs where I needed to make gear compromises to "get the job done". That's absolutely necessary at times. Because the gig IS really about the audience and not the band. On the other hand...

                  A musician needs to have skill and deliver the goods. In order to develop skill and deliver the goods as an artist you need to be inspired. It's hard to be inspired if your tone amounts to boiled chicken breast in a plastic baggie.

                  So we do both. Seek a tone that inspires us. Or at least keeps us from being concerned about it.?. And we also do whatever it takes to deliver the art that came from our unencumbered moments of inspiration.
                  "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                  "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                  "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                  You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    True, but they're also the generations that grew up with Chuck Berry & Led Zeppelin...
                    I save most of my really rowdy playing for home. Neighbors? I never hear them call, for some reason... But when you're outside, with a REAL drummer, getting to five or six on a 50W Fender isn't really that hard. No PA for backup - vocals only. As it should be.

                    I don't always play loud. I fit the amp to the room, and don't ask for "help." My amplifier was made to flatter the electric guitar. Your digital PA with it's 20-20k was not. It's even worse for bass...

                    And I find audiences a lot more receptive to loud volume if the source quality is good.

                    Chuck: And that's why I keep a Champ and a 2x6V6 amp around - compromise!

                    Justin
                    "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
                    "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
                    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by g1 View Post
                      I'm not being critical, but this is sure an odd choice of venues for someone with your love of volume.
                      I'm having visions of Grandma in the nursing home raising her fist with the index finger and the pinky pointing skyward as she shouts "Dude!" as Justin rocks it live.
                      "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

                      "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I walked to a retirement home one day and saw a lady in a Dead shirt, cutoffs, and sandals. I knew her from my previous job, so I asked what she was dressed up for. She said, nothing, I felt like wearing this.

                        The day is coming. As long as we don't all roll over and die before they do.

                        Justin
                        "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
                        "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
                        "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Well, I DO live in an old folks home. They have a number of musicians who come in and entertain. And without fail, if I am around I will bop in, yell "Free Bird" from the back and wander away when I can. Getting loud would clear the room.


                          I got nothing against the desire to have one's tone exactly as one wants it. I guess though the congregation will enjoy your music, and they will never know whether you nailed your tone, or you felt it fell short the entire gig. They liked it regardless. Not unless you were to carp about it. Never let them see you sweat. If your mic dies, step over to the next mic like you meant it. Play a mistake? Play it a couple more times and pretend it was a lick. You will know, but they won't. That is the difference between a pro and say Ashlee Simpson.

                          I have no problem with cursing, for example. But I never said "fuck" in front of my mother. Not because I was offended, but she would be. Likewise here at the home, I use my church vocabulary, rather than the coarser language I would use at the shop. I don't feel like I am selling out or denying my own nature, I am just placing a value on the interaction. I have worked with guitarists who refuse to turn the amp down from 10 (or even 11). The venue is complaining, the bandmates are complaining, the tables in front of his rig are empty, but his art precludes anyone else.

                          I am not saying anyone here is like that, just pointing out that compromise in life is not all or nothing.
                          Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Enzo View Post
                            If your mic dies, step over to the next mic like you meant it. Play a mistake? Play it a couple more times and pretend it was a lick. You will know, but they won't. That is the difference between a pro and say Ashlee Simpson.
                            Yeah, so, thanks for that. I had to get up off the floor and explain my laughter to my uninterested espoused.
                            "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                            "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                            "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                            You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I agree about compromise not being all or nothing. I would just rather build a smaller amp than buy a modeler... But I'm also not going to back down when someone's rationale for me turning down is "I can't control you." I ask two questions - am I overpowering anything, and do I sound BAD? The answer to both is always "no, but I need to be able to control you."

                              No, you don't. If I don't overpower anyone and I don't sound "bad," then I am clearly able to control myself. And I do. <WE> do, as a group.

                              Justin
                              "Wow it's red! That doesn't look like the standard Marshall red. It's more like hooker lipstick/clown nose/poodle pecker red." - Chuck H. -
                              "Of course that means playing **LOUD** , best but useless solution to modern sissy snowflake players." - J.M. Fahey -
                              "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Did the sound guy have a red face and horns? CONTROL!?!

                                Something My band use to do (ok... It was just me ) was to say "ok" when asked to turn down, but actually turn up a little. Then do it again. Then, the third time they asked I would just turn down to where I was to start with. Worked every time.
                                "Take two placebos, works twice as well." Enzo

                                "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

                                "If you're not interested in opinions and the experience of others, why even start a thread?
                                You can't just expect consent." Helmholtz

                                Comment

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