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Thread: Line out

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    Line out

    Maybe i should publish this in another forum. The last post here is from 2016!!

    What's the best way to do a line out?
    I've made it with 2 resistors. I have one 47k from speaker output to line out. Plus one 4.7k to ground bypassed with a .0047 cap.
    This make a quite good line out but it cut some bass.

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    Supporting Member eschertron's Avatar
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    Your cap's knee freq is above 7kHz. Try a bigger cap to roll off more highs, giving the effect of more bass.

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    If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
    If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
    We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
    MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey


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    Quote Originally Posted by eschertron View Post
    Your cap's knee freq is above 7kHz. Try a bigger cap to roll off more highs, giving the effect of more bass.
    I tried some different low pass calculators and i got 720 hz. The 47K resistor is the resistor before the cap to ground.
    C=4.7nF R=47kΩ =720.48Hz

    Should i calculate with the bypassed resistors value?
    C=4.7nF R=4.7kΩ =7.2kHz

    It is this type of line out, but with other resistor values https://robrobinette.com/images/Guit..._Schematic.bmp

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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Long story, but the net resistance you need to put in the equation is 47k in parallel with 4k7 so about some 4200 ohms.
    In any case you are complaining about lack of Bass.
    Point is, that circuit does not cut Bass at all, so I guess your Harp amplifier does not have much Bass to begin with (to say it politely).

    But there is also an important question: what are you feeding that signal into?

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    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    I recorded it in to a zoom H4 recorder .
    I Will post som pictures screen dumps from my sound editing program.

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    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
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    Ok, which Zoom inputs did you plug into?

    * XLR main inputs?
    * 1/4" main inputs?
    * "External Mic" Mini stereo phone jack?

    all completely different from each other.

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    Juan Manuel Fahey

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    I Use 1/4 to 1/4 cable..
    This is how it looks.
    a link to the picture

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    Last edited by arnenym; 02-09-2018 at 09:22 AM.

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    A 1/4" jack is likely to be medium or high impedance, so shouldn't load the line out filter.
    However, as the line out filter frequency is so high, it's likely to sound weird if no other cab simulation is being applied.
    Suggest you try ~33nF - 47nF across the 4k7 to try and cut some of the harsh top end, which would also tend to make the bass more prominent in comparison.
    What's the picture?
    Can you see it if you log out of photobucket?

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    I tried another way to upload the picture.

    I gonna try 2 different solutions.
    Before i change cap to a bigger I try a DI box and use XLR input.
    After that i try with a bigger cap -.033

    Alt3) Rebuild the line out with 2 smaller resistors. 4k7 and 470 ohm and a 0068 cap. It would save space..

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    Quote Originally Posted by arnenym View Post
    ...Alt3) Rebuild the line out with 2 smaller resistors. 4k7 and 470 ohm and a 0068 cap. It would save space..
    To retain the same corner freq, the cap would need to be 10x bigger than before, eg 330nF = 0.33uF.
    To make the cap smaller, higher value resistors would be needed, and then you may run into impedance issues, ie what you connect to it may shift the corner frequency.

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    OK.
    As you explain it i understand i do best if i use a DI box and cut the cap. Or if i put in smaller resistors and not use a cap. Because the treble roll off would differ from one sound mixer to another or if i connect it directly to a recorder.

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    Your original plan was fine but best to use a bigger cap, eg 33nF.

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    I have no .033 at home. I tried a .047 and get a slightly lower output but there is no annoying "sewing machine distorsion" anymore.
    I have better bass response. The bass move from -10 to -4 on the scale on my sound editor.
    Great tip and i thanks a lot.
    I will buy some lower volt .033 and .047 for this purpose.

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  14. #14
    Supporting Member eschertron's Avatar
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    So from a 47n, moving to 33n or 68n will give you 'shades' of tone control. A good place to start. Glad you got the results you wanted

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    If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
    If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
    We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas
    MANY things in human experience can be easily differentiated, yet *impossible* to express as a measurement. - Juan Fahey


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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    My design uses a 2.2k series resistor off the 4 ohm tap and a 47n cap across a 500k pot. That's a roll off at 10k of about 4.5dB. Which is actually a little conservative considering the nature of guitar speakers. And (this is embarrassing considering this is an amp I sell to customers) I've actually never even ear tested it. But I've had no complaints.

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    "Never bet your life on somebody else doing their job." SoulFetish's good friend

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

    "Back to the amp. It makes horrible sounds when I play my guitar thru it... because I suck at playing guitar." Mike6158

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    Member Emeritus Forever Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    I've actually never even ear tested it.
    I'm afraid to ask which body part you did use to test it...

    Steve A.

    P.S. I just read how the Tube Screamer and perhaps even the Klon Centaur have a high pass filter set around 736hz. {The Keeley Oxblood od/boost pedal has a "phat" switch that toggles between that frequency and 66hz, and it really thickens the sound nicely.}

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    Last edited by Steve A.; 02-18-2018 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    I'm afraid to ask which ...I just read how the Tube Screamer ... have a high pass filter set around 736hz...
    Note that HPF is just on the clipped signal. As the clipper and HPF are in the feedback of a non-inverting amp, the full range, unclipped, buffered signal also appearst at that stage's output.
    With high output PUs and a clean amp, the clean signal can be heard with the clipped signal riding on to of it. Unfortunately the clean signal gets muffled by the tone control stage, something I think the sparkledrive has a remedy for.
    Perhaps why TS seem to work better with an overdriving amp.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdf64 View Post
    Note that HPF is just on the clipped signal. As the clipper and HPF are in the feedback of a non-inverting amp, the full range, unclipped, buffered signal also appearst at that stage's output... the clean signal can be heard with the clipped signal riding on top of it.
    That's the main charm of the TS. It allows some crisp, sharp clipping on lower frequencies while still letting the top end chime of Fender type amps to come through making those amps sound heavily clipped but with some clean-ish articulation. Sound like anyone's tone we all know and love? (R.I.P. Stevie )

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    "Never bet your life on somebody else doing their job." SoulFetish's good friend

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

    "Back to the amp. It makes horrible sounds when I play my guitar thru it... because I suck at playing guitar." Mike6158

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