Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Hide Glue for Tolex

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    793
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 27/1
    Given: 5/0
    Rep Power
    11

    Hide Glue for Tolex

    I'm thinking of using hide glue for re-tolexing a vintage amp -- not because I'm trying for vintage-correctness, but because I'm chemically-sensitive to the solvents in contact cements. To use them, I have to be outdoors or in an area ventilated by a high-powered fan and use a respirator mask with organic vapor cartridges or I'll end up feeling like I'm coming down with the flu for a couple of days. Then, I have to store anything done with contact cement in an attic or some other outdoor shelter for a few days until it's done outgassing. When you add up all that trouble, having to heat hide glue starts to look easy. Organic vapor cartridges are not cheap.

    Any tips for tolexing a cabinet with hide glue? I read that you have to work quickly to avoid having it set up on you. Do you apply it to the tolex, the wood, or both?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  2. #2
    Old Timer tedmich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sonoma CA
    Posts
    3,348
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 234/2
    Given: 76/2
    Rep Power
    15
    see this post
    tolex/adhesive frustration
    and associated discussion. Hide should work ok but is tricky compared to some "green" water based contact cements also mentioned.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  3. #3
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    11,753
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1,883/23
    Given: 1,463/35
    Rep Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodesplyr View Post
    I'm thinking of using hide glue for re-tolexing a vintage amp -- not because I'm trying for vintage-correctness, but because I'm chemically-sensitive to the solvents in contact cements. To use them, I have to be outdoors or in an area ventilated by a high-powered fan and use a respirator mask with organic vapor cartridges or I'll end up feeling like I'm coming down with the flu for a couple of days. Then, I have to store anything done with contact cement in an attic or some other outdoor shelter for a few days until it's done outgassing. When you add up all that trouble, having to heat hide glue starts to look easy. Organic vapor cartridges are not cheap.

    Any tips for tolexing a cabinet with hide glue? I read that you have to work quickly to avoid having it set up on you. Do you apply it to the tolex, the wood, or both?
    You´ll go crazy with hide glue because they require a lot of hardware to work with.
    Fender used a hot table on which he could brush glue on Tweed or Tolex without hurry, it started cooling only when lifted and applied to cabinet.
    And even so he split Tolex (or Tweed) into 4 pieces so he coukd fully apply one while others were still warm.

    And Acoustic (where I learnt yhen Technique) and most others (up to and including Mesa Boogie) used the wonderful Potdevin hot glue spreaders , I´ll post a video.
    Problem is they cost quite a fef thousand dollars.
    No big deal for any Factory (or even the US Post service which use them to apply lickable glue to stamps) but impractical to small users:

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Juan Manuel Fahey

  4. #4
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, USA
    Posts
    4,909
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 76/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    18
    Great video. Thanks for posting it.

    I never knew that Mesa used a huge die and a roller press to cut the tolex to pattern. They sure waste a lot of material.
    I also like the glue application machine that uses a wet roller.

    I hadn't realized that the Mesa cabs use a single piece of tolex that results in a single seam on the bottom of the cab, where the old Fender cabs would use two pices of tolex that resulted in 2 seams. I wish the cameraman would have done a better job showing how they trimmed the seams on the cabinet. He really dropped the ball on that part of the video.

    This video reminds me of why I avoid re-tolexing. And why I won't pay very much for a cab that needs to be re-tolexed.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  5. #5
    Old Timer Tom Phillips's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    3,559
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 160/0
    Given: 92/1
    Rep Power
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by bob p View Post
    ...the old Fender cabs would use two pices of tolex that resulted in 2 seams...
    Bob,
    That would be four pieces and four overlaping seems for an old Fender.
    Cheers,
    Tom

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  6. #6
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, USA
    Posts
    4,909
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 76/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    18
    I must be remembering things wrong, Tom. I remember the Fenders using a single piece of tolex on the bottom, and a second piece that wrapped around the bottom edge, up one side, across the top, down the other side, and around the other bottom edge, to create two seams. Am I remembering it wrong? As you can tell, I avoid doing this sort of thing.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  7. #7
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, USA
    Posts
    4,909
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 76/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    18
    I guess I'd better go take another look at my Fender amps.

    From casey4s' old drawings:

    http://www.guitarkitbuilder.com/img/tolex10.jpg

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    793
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 27/1
    Given: 5/0
    Rep Power
    11
    I appreciate the warnings.

    Maybe I'll try Mojotone's water-based contact cement and see how that works.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  9. #9
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, USA
    Posts
    4,909
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 76/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    18
    AES/CED also sells tolex adhesive by the gallon. I don't know how it compares to the Mojo product, I've never used either one.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  10. #10
    Old Timer J M Fahey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    11,753
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1,883/23
    Given: 1,463/35
    Rep Power
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodesplyr View Post
    I appreciate the warnings.

    Maybe I'll try Mojotone's water-based contact cement and see how that works.
    Cool. Try it first: join, round and sand 2 pieces of wood, you´ll have 2 corners which is the hard part, and you can try seams on the flat sides.

    I have not had luck with water based contact cement, so it´s the solven type for me, buy kept reading and I think I pplied too little.
    I should have applied more, or let dry and apply a second layer (on each side), the key seems to be that surface should look somewhat shiny, glue shpuld be "visible" even when dry.
    If it looks like "there´s nothing there" ... probably there´s not enough.

    Even simpler: try plam sized bits of Tolex testing different techniques, and once you´re in the ballpark, test the full rounded corner, seams, etc.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Juan Manuel Fahey

  11. #11
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,070
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 63/0
    Given: 43/0
    Rep Power
    14
    I tried the water based adhesive, but like Juan, had poor luck, ended up peeling the tolex off, and applying it wet. That worked, but I had to keep smoothing the wrinkles out until it dried. I finished the rest of the cab with contact cement!
    I realize you have problems with the solvent based stuff, but the method I have settled on is applying DAP to the wood, and then spraying 3M 77 on the tolex. I think I wasn't getting the tolex covered completely when brushing the adhesive on it, and would sometimes get "bubbles" where it didn't adhere.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  12. #12
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, USA
    Posts
    4,909
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 76/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    18
    3M 77 -- does that stuff give you any working time or is it a one-shot deal?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cornelius, Oregon
    Posts
    1,419
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 111/0
    Given: 204/2
    Rep Power
    15
    I learned how to cover cabinets from Conrad Sundholm, of Sunn fame. He used and still uses hide glue. It doesn't give a lot of time to work with it before it hardens, but you just need to make sure your pieces are cut properly and you are ready to lay it down. Use a roller and do smaller areas at a time and save the corners until last and it works great. Prior to learning from Conrad I used contact cement and the 3M spray stuff. I had by far the best results with hide glue. YMMV.

    Greg

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  14. #14
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,070
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 63/0
    Given: 43/0
    Rep Power
    14
    bob p, my method leaves only a few minutes after contact, before it gets really difficult to separate. I use strips of tape to ensure that the piece I am installing is correctly orientated. (Most important when using different colors of tolex!)

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  15. #15
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, USA
    Posts
    4,909
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 76/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    18
    thanks. which DAP product goes on the wood?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  16. #16
    Supporting Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,070
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 63/0
    Given: 43/0
    Rep Power
    14
    I use the original DAP "Weldwood" contact cement, and wait usually 15 minutes before assembly.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Anyone have a hot glue gun they like. What glue for what purpose?
    By David King in forum Tools and Coil Winding Gear
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-26-2014, 11:28 PM
  2. Replies: 33
    Last Post: 03-10-2010, 07:33 PM
  3. (UK based question) What glue for tolex/ tweed etc?
    By The Captain in forum Cabinetry
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-12-2008, 12:07 AM
  4. Glue to use on overlapped tolex?
    By daz in forum Cabinetry
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-21-2008, 02:57 AM
  5. What have YOU used to glue Tolex with?
    By nicksorenson in forum Build Your Amp
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-30-2007, 06:31 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •