Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: I can see the future... Be scared. Be very ascared!

  1. #1
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    pacific north west
    Posts
    13,621
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 639/3
    Given: 684/0

    I can see the future... Be scared. Be very ascared!

    Considering all things digital... Many players, pro and amateur are already on board. So what's the next development? You can already choose a vintage Fender, Marshall, Vox, etc. And on some you can even choose what kind of guitar you want to sound like you're playing through regardless of the actual guitar. I think...

    The next development will be player emulation. Pro players will be sampled in hundreds, thousands of specific playing circumstances emulating famous players. This will be sampled and the trigger will be refined. So if you're an amateur player and you want to sound like Stevie Ray you just need to choose that patch. Then you can clumsily hammer away and even poorly executed notes will sound forth like Stevie played them. The trigger will be refined to recognize intention rather than what's actually happening. Ok... I'm going to let anyone else run with this for a bit. I just threw up in my mouth a little.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

  2. #2
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    30,807
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 723/4
    Given: 0/0
    Rap music did that years ago.

    Remember when MC Hammer lifted the riff from Rick James' SUper Freak of U can't touch this? James was all ready to sue until he discovered his old music was all of a sudden getting sales again. That made it all OK.

    Sampling synths did recorded samples which you could then program together. That is also old.

    Twenty years ago I got a sample program for Acid. That was a looping software from SOnic FOundry. You could cut and paste musical phrases, not unlike ProTools. You could buy Acid sample libraries. OMG, apparently it is still around. These are specific licks and phrases.

    https://www.magix.com/us/music/acid-pro/

    NO reason you couldn't adapt that.

    I used to see the Ensoniq guy do a demo of their sampler keyboard. He came to our store once a year. He'd blow in a coke bottle and sample the WHOOT. Then he'd use that as a tone, which would expand up and down the octaves and make up some composition. He also took a selection of presampled licks and put together a bar or two of music, which he then repeated to make a song. That was 25 years ago.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  3. #3
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    pacific north west
    Posts
    13,621
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 639/3
    Given: 684/0
    Well we all know about THAT sort of thing. Easy enough to make "music" without playing a note as it is. What I'm talking about is an amp that can refine your playing. I know you're saying the old tech was already moving that direction and that the guitar notes played would become triggers for that tech. I think it'll go beyond that with a lot more refined nuance. When I said "pro players" above I wasn't talking about the actual famous guitar players. I was talking about pro players that are good at emulating those famous players. Good enough to make the notes executed by a bedroom wank monkey sound WAY more pro than they have rights to. Doing like this would allow for a lot of nuanced samples. If this were somehow able to be amalgamated with current sampling tech without horrifying seems in the sound you could actually sort of "auto correct" bad playing. So many players out there are looking for the right guitar, amp, boutique dirt box, etc. because they think if they get their tone right they can sound like a pro. This sort of amp would actually achieve some of that. It would probably fly off the shelves.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

  4. #4
    Lifetime Member Enzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    30,807
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 723/4
    Given: 0/0
    As soon as you make an auto-correct for licks, it is decided exactly what licks you want to play, and really aren't we right back at samples then?

    I am having a hard time wrapping my head around playing some new lick I just made up but having ti sound like SRV played it.

    I think if you want to sell essence of pro player, sell their "tone". it is one thing for an amp to emulate a Fender Twin Reverb. But it would be another to emulate SRV's rig.

    I bet you could take a basic 10-band EQ pedal, set it up to sound like some player, then replace the sliders with resistors, et voila, you have an SRV pedal.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Education is what you're left with after you have forgotten what you have learned.

  5. #5
    don't forget the joker g1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Canada, somewhere north of Fargo
    Posts
    10,312
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 459/3
    Given: 985/2
    Were you listening to some Greta Van Fleet Chuck?
    Sounds about as close to emulated Zep as could be, at least as far as I'm concerned. I have to say I don't really get it.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    But, I did learn something. There are protons, neutrons, electrons, ............ and morons.

  6. #6
    Supporting Member Robert Technology's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    42
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 2/0
    Given: 0/0
    The problem with bands like Greta Van Fleet is that they've got the sound down, but not the songwriting. Those kids can play the hell out of their instruments, and have done a phenomenal job of getting the sound down, but the songs are just boring.

    Listened to the album once and am never going back.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  7. #7
    "Thermionic Apocalypse" -JT nickb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    2,962
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 217/0
    Given: 208/1
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    Well we all know about THAT sort of thing. Easy enough to make "music" without playing a note as it is. What I'm talking about is an amp that can refine your playing. I know you're saying the old tech was already moving that direction and that the guitar notes played would become triggers for that tech. I think it'll go beyond that with a lot more refined nuance. When I said "pro players" above I wasn't talking about the actual famous guitar players. I was talking about pro players that are good at emulating those famous players. Good enough to make the notes executed by a bedroom wank monkey sound WAY more pro than they have rights to. Doing like this would allow for a lot of nuanced samples. If this were somehow able to be amalgamated with current sampling tech without horrifying seems in the sound you could actually sort of "auto correct" bad playing. So many players out there are looking for the right guitar, amp, boutique dirt box, etc. because they think if they get their tone right they can sound like a pro. This sort of amp would actually achieve some of that. It would probably fly off the shelves.
    All I can say it would have to work really really well to make my playing sound decent

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Experience is something you get, just after you really needed it.

  8. #8
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chill-Ville, VA
    Posts
    2,649
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 187/1
    Given: 376/7
    Quote Originally Posted by nickb View Post
    All I can say it would have to work really really well to make my playing sound decent
    Nah, just make sure you get the "Neil Young Signature" module or whatever format these things will come in. That way, you can sound both pro AND as bad as you do right now, at the same time!

    Justin

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "... If an older Boogie and classic Marshall had a (clearly illegitimate) child and you baked it in an oven set to clown shit crazy." - Chuck H. -
    "When receiving a shock I emit a strange loud high pitched girlish squeak." - Alex R -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

  9. #9
    Supporting Member Robert Technology's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    42
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 2/0
    Given: 0/0
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Thomas View Post
    Nah, just make sure you get the "Neil Young Signature" module or whatever format these things will come in. That way, you can sound both pro AND as bad as you do right now, at the same time!

    Justin
    That's called style, right?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  10. #10
    Supporting Member eschertron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Great Black Swamp
    Posts
    1,862
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 114/0
    Given: 280/1
    Wait a minute... I think the 'real time performance' thing has some time yet to develop, but "Band in a Box", to mention one out of several, already does this with a slight lag. I type in the chords of the song, pick a style, and some highly trained session musician's licks are played over the changes.
    Yeah, I know that's not what you were thinking exactly, but it's close. Maybe closer than we know.

    edit: Google is apparently snooping in on our discussion. A banner ad with the headline "Can robots replace accountants?" just flashed across the bottom of the page. I'm now very ascared.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by eschertron; 04-25-2018 at 01:07 AM.
    If it still won't get loud enough, it's probably broken. - Steve Conner
    If the thing works, stop fixing it. - Enzo
    We need more chaos in music, in art... I'm here to make it. - Justin Thomas

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    39
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  12. #12
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    pacific north west
    Posts
    13,621
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 639/3
    Given: 684/0
    Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
    Were you listening to some Greta Van Fleet Chuck?
    Sounds about as close to emulated Zep as could be, at least as far as I'm concerned. I have to say I don't really get it.
    Actually, I have! Coincidence? But yeah, I was listening to my radio and during the day a couple of their songs got some air and I was like "Hey?!? I know Robert has a new project, but he can't do that stuff anymore.?." So I went on line and typed in some lyrics to locate the band. I saw an interview with Robert commenting on the band and he's 100% behind their effort. Even expressed some jealousy about this guy being able to nail his chops. But not bitter. More flattered for it. A peruse of the bands work on *outube showed me that while it's actually really cool to hear Robert done so well, the singers more original chops that DON'T sound like Led Zeppelin are also good. Not sure I'd buy the recordings though.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "...less ear-friendly but handy for jazz." Leo_Gnardo

    "A pedal, any kind, will not make a Guitar player more dangerous than he already is." J M Fahey

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "A shot gun delivers a force that exceeds the operational range of most systems, such as pumpkins." Antigua

  13. #13
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, USA
    Posts
    4,908
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 55/0
    Given: 0/0
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    The next development will be player emulation. Pro players will be sampled in hundreds, thousands of specific playing circumstances emulating famous players. This will be sampled and the trigger will be refined. So if you're an amateur player and you want to sound like Stevie Ray you just need to choose that patch. Then you can clumsily hammer away and even poorly executed notes will sound forth like Stevie played them. The trigger will be refined to recognize intention rather than what's actually happening. Ok... I'm going to let anyone else run with this for a bit. I just threw up in my mouth a little.
    Don't we already have a program that takes non-talented people and turns them into virtuoso guitarists? It's called Guitar Hero.





    On a more serious note, I'm with Chuck. What he's describing is the natural progression of things. A rackmounted box that corrects your playing and makes you sound like whoever you want to sound like is coming to elevate guitarists of poor talent to the level of virtuoso performers.

    How can it not be coming? We've already heard this principle applied to singing with the evolution of the Auto-Tune and Melodyne software. Now people who can't sing harmony worth a crap sound like Boyz2Men or The Catatonics. Oops, I meant The Pentatonics. These types of sofware have a feature called DNS (direct note access) where it's possible to independently manipulate individual notes within a polyphonic chord.

    Pitch correcting software can work miracles. I remember seeing a youtube video of a guy who used a MIDI keyboard to program an inexpensive pitch-corrector pedal to correct a mic's vocal input to the correct pitch, and then and add 3 part harmony. Then he groaned out a tone-deaf recitation of Bohemian Rhapsody as if it were a poem. Then the pitch shifting made him sound like Queen... (not really).

    If they can do it for vocals, they can do it for guitars. It's coming.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by bob p; 04-25-2018 at 02:01 AM.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  14. #14
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, USA
    Posts
    4,908
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 55/0
    Given: 0/0
    100 points for anyone who can bear watching the whole video:


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  15. #15
    Old Timer
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chill-Ville, VA
    Posts
    2,649
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 187/1
    Given: 376/7
    I did... But I don't have video to prove it, so...
    As tor "Guitar Hero," the guys in my house who play it can't play guitar for crap, and the guys who play guitar can't play "guitar Hero" for crap... I played it once, don't plan to again.

    Justin

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "... If an older Boogie and classic Marshall had a (clearly illegitimate) child and you baked it in an oven set to clown shit crazy." - Chuck H. -
    "When receiving a shock I emit a strange loud high pitched girlish squeak." - Alex R -
    "All I ever managed to do with that amp was... kill small rodents within a 50 yard radius of my practice building." - Tone Meister -

  16. #16
    Better Tone thru Mathematics bob p's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, USA
    Posts
    4,908
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 55/0
    Given: 0/0
    That pitch correction was pretty amazing. That guy was either a really bad singer or he was just trying to be really bad, but the software made him sound a whole lot better. I don't see why this couldn't be adapted to work for guitarists as well.

    If you could sit through the whole thing, I'm impressed -- OK, you get 100 points.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by bob p; 04-25-2018 at 02:45 AM.
    "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

    "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

  17. #17
    Old Timer tedmich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sonoma CA
    Posts
    3,178
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 48/0
    Given: 38/2
    Silly Wabbit! No one in the future will want to mimic CONVENTIONAL MUSIC! They'll want something like
    extratone, described here:


    or blackmidi
    https://youtu.be/FqjSYtKWyX8

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. optimistic about the future
    By dmartn149 in forum Lobby
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 12-31-2014, 06:15 PM
  2. Scared of electricity?
    By Rhodesplyr in forum Lobby
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-02-2014, 03:05 PM
  3. Is this the future of pickups???
    By rhgwynn in forum Pickup Makers
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 09-01-2013, 09:24 PM
  4. Scared to plug in motor
    By lowell in forum Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Repair
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-01-2010, 11:00 PM
  5. Secondhand market of the future?
    By Satamax in forum Lobby
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-30-2007, 06:23 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •