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Thread: Deluxe Reverb problem

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by pdf64 View Post
    Issues that occur when gain is increased may be due to oscillation; closely examine the precise placement of wires in a real BF and review your lead dress against that.
    Ah that may be it! I do need to go back and recheck the lead dress anyway. Thanks, I'll see what happens, maybe take some pics and report back.

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  2. #142
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    I will note that, with the chassis out of the cab, it doesn't exhibit any tearing sound. I warmed the bias back up from 18 mA to 20, so it's either that or the cab that's causing it perhaps.

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  3. #143
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    I did barely tuck the wires into proper place but not much. They were good already. Who knows. I have it back in the cab so we'll see.

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  4. #144
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    The cab is causing it, apparently. That's when it returns.

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  6. #146
    Lest We Forget g1's Avatar
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    I can't really make out the bad noise from the soundfile, but I don't have much for speakers.
    Often, a fault that shows up only in cabinet is due to vibration. Could be a bad tube, bad tube/socket connection, bad solder joint, dirty pot, etc.
    I would try applying a constant signal with the chassis out of the cab, then tap around the chassis with a chopstick or rubber mallet or something and see if you can recreate the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    But, I did learn something. There are protons, neutrons, electrons, ............ and morons.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
    I can't really make out the bad noise from the soundfile, but I don't have much for speakers.
    Often, a fault that shows up only in cabinet is due to vibration. Could be a bad tube, bad tube/socket connection, bad solder joint, dirty pot, etc.
    I would try applying a constant signal with the chassis out of the cab, then tap around the chassis with a chopstick or rubber mallet or something and see if you can recreate the problem.
    Sorry, should have had my phone closer to the amp. It's a quick tearing sound distinguishable from the natural distortion. Happens during sustained chords. I found last night it begins to occur at about 8 on volume.

    I'll go back in and do a more thorough check. I didn't observe anything odd when I poked around the lead dress previously. Would it more likely be caused by V2 or the 6v6s?

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  8. #148
    Lest We Forget g1's Avatar
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    It could be any tube. When it's doing it in the cab you can hold the tubes with a clean rag (don't burn your hand!) one at a time and see if you can make it stop. You can use a clean oven mitt too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    But, I did learn something. There are protons, neutrons, electrons, ............ and morons.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
    It could be any tube. When it's doing it in the cab you can hold the tubes with a clean rag (don't burn your hand!) one at a time and see if you can make it stop. You can use a clean oven mitt too.
    Playing with the chassis out of the cab, the rca 7025 i had in there was still causing it. Substituted a tung sol, which doesn't have the problem, at least not out of the chassis. We'll see what happens in the cab.

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  10. #150
    Tubewreck jmaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyler8611 View Post
    Playing with the chassis out of the cab, the rca 7025 i had in there was still causing it.
    Remember we're blind-helping you here. So if you tell us the problem does not happen out of the cab then you find that it does, you've thrown us off. First thing I'd tell you it's the tubes but if it didn't happen out of the cab then obviously not, glad you found that.

    One other thing: if this is getting worse in the cab, means that when the tubes are upside down it gets worse, then there can be mechanical problem in the tubes.

    Also tubes are microphonic, they can be obnoxious when in a cabinet, the speaker shakes the tubes which replicate the vibration in the output, this matches what you describe when you play a chord, the underlying vibration.

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  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmaf View Post
    Remember we're blind-helping you here. So if you tell us the problem does not happen out of the cab then you find that it does, you've thrown us off. First thing I'd tell you it's the tubes but if it didn't happen out of the cab then obviously not, glad you found that.

    One other thing: if this is getting worse in the cab, means that when the tubes are upside down it gets worse, then there can be mechanical problem in the tubes.

    Also tubes are microphonic, they can be obnoxious when in a cabinet, the speaker shakes the tubes which replicate the vibration in the output, this matches what you describe when you play a chord, the underlying vibration.
    Could it be a mechanical problem in any tube? Meaning all the ones having to do with V2?

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  12. #152
    Tubewreck jmaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyler8611 View Post
    Could it be a mechanical problem in any tube? Meaning all the ones having to do with V2?
    Don't know what you mean by having to do with V2?

    What you describe, above volume 8 on sustained chords clearly sounds like feedback through the tubes, chassis vibration coming back through the tubes, etc. Could be a bunch of things.

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  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmaf View Post
    Don't know what you mean by having to do with V2?

    What you describe, above volume 8 on sustained chords clearly sounds like feedback through the tubes, chassis vibration coming back through the tubes, etc. Could be a bunch of things.
    I'll be tube swapping shortly.

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  14. #154
    Lest We Forget g1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmaf View Post
    Don't know what you mean by having to do with V2?
    He's only getting the bad sound on the vibrato channel, so V2 or any other tubes that channel goes through, like V4, V6, and power tubes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    But, I did learn something. There are protons, neutrons, electrons, ............ and morons.

  15. #155
    Tubewreck jmaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by g1 View Post
    He's only getting the bad sound on the vibrato channel, so V2 or any other tubes that channel goes through, like V4, V6, and power tubes.
    Oh, gotya. Thanks.

    Once he swaps tubes I guess we'll get a better idea.

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  16. #156
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    Hey just wanted to finally update, busy weekend. The problem was solved by a swap. It was either the tremolo tube or phase splitter, since I did those at the same time. No more harsh ripping!

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  17. #157
    Supporting Member Tone Meister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyler8611 View Post
    Hey just wanted to finally update, busy weekend. The problem was solved by a swap. It was either the tremolo tube or phase splitter, since I did those at the same time. No more harsh ripping!
    Really? After all that you'd swap two tubes at a time and forego the opportunity to pinpoint the issue? I'd have to know, but that's just me. Glad you got it sorted out, but I'd have to KNOW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by km6xz View Post
    "I have come to the conclusion that the biggest risk to amp performance/reliability and "tone" is players reading the internet, not bad tube brands, and certainly not the often argued over capacitors."

  18. #158
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone Meister View Post
    Really? After all that you'd swap two tubes at a time and forego the opportunity to pinpoint the issue? I'd have to know, but that's just me. Glad you got it sorted out, but I'd have to KNOW.
    Good point but my guess would be the phase inverter. After 157 posts (just here on MEF!) I certainly hope that all of the problems have been solved.

    Steve A.

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  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone Meister View Post
    Really? After all that you'd swap two tubes at a time and forego the opportunity to pinpoint the issue? I'd have to know, but that's just me. Glad you got it sorted out, but I'd have to KNOW.
    I can easily reinsert the previous tubes, recreate the problem and find out which was causing it, and I will. I was simply tired of doing one tube at a time and didn't think the trem tube would make a difference because several different tubes had already been in there while the problem was occurring. I had never changed the phase inverter until yesterday, mainly because it's a JAN blackplate. So I'm quite certain that was the one. But you never know.

    I'll reinsert the old phase inverter and trem tube and find out for sure. Honestly I just felt like playing once I heard the ugly distortion had gone. Thanks guys!

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  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    Good point but my guess would be the phase inverter. After 157 posts (just here on MEF!) I certainly hope that all of the problems have been solved.

    Steve A.
    I think so too, but I'll find out for certain and report back.

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  21. #161
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    Lack of high voltage is caused by open equalizing resistors under the circuit board under the dog house. You need to flip over the cap circuit board to get to them 220K 1W

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  22. #162
    Supporting Member Tone Meister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyler8611 View Post
    I can easily reinsert the previous tubes, recreate the problem and find out which was causing it, and I will. I was simply tired of doing one tube at a time and didn't think the trem tube would make a difference because several different tubes had already been in there while the problem was occurring. I had never changed the phase inverter until yesterday, mainly because it's a JAN blackplate. So I'm quite certain that was the one. But you never know.

    I'll reinsert the old phase inverter and trem tube and find out for sure. Honestly I just felt like playing once I heard the ugly distortion had gone. Thanks guys!
    Sorry if I came across like I was busting your chops because that wasn't my intention. But I had been watching this thread pretty closely and watched as each issue got sorted out and its root cause identified. I'm a novice, so I pay attention to these threads and learn what I can from them, which many times keeps me from having to start a thread of my own. For every thread I've started here on MEF, I have easily solved dozens more issues on my own by searching for previous instances of the same problem I was having.

    This place is a cornucopia of in-depth technical knowledge. The best-of-the-best techs, designers, and engineers in the world unselfishly offer their assistance on this site, and I think we owe it to the next guy to clearly show the resolutions in our threads, including info on hard to find parts and non-conventional problem solving. In the end, it saves bandwidth and many times keeps the pros here from answering the same questions multiple times.

    So yes, please do swap those tubes back in there (hope you know which one went where ) so you can put a lid on this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by km6xz View Post
    "I have come to the conclusion that the biggest risk to amp performance/reliability and "tone" is players reading the internet, not bad tube brands, and certainly not the often argued over capacitors."

  23. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone Meister View Post
    Sorry if I came across like I was busting your chops because that wasn't my intention. But I had been watching this thread pretty closely and watched as each issue got sorted out and its root cause identified. I'm a novice, so I pay attention to these threads and learn what I can from them, which many times keeps me from having to start a thread of my own. For every thread I've started here on MEF, I have easily solved dozens more issues on my own by searching for previous instances of the same problem I was having.

    This place is a cornucopia of in-depth technical knowledge. The best-of-the-best techs, designers, and engineers in the world unselfishly offer their assistance on this site, and I think we owe it to the next guy to clearly show the resolutions in our threads, including info on hard to find parts and non-conventional problem solving. In the end, it saves bandwidth and many times keeps the pros here from answering the same questions multiple times.

    So yes, please do swap those tubes back in there (hope you know which one went where ) so you can put a lid on this one.
    No problem at all! I'm very grateful to you guys for helping and keeping me on the right path so I could find the problem and solve it. I hope this can be helpful for anyone who experiences the same or similar issues.

    I'm finally going to have time today to swap the tubes back in one at a time in order to find out for sure which was the problem and report back.

    I've had maybe two or three hours to play it since I sorted the problem. Sounds really great. No noise problems or grounding issues. All settings work properly, the effects are flawless. I'll see if I can record a clip through my interface or phone.

    Not sure if I posted pics of the tubes or transformers, but I'll go over that. PT is from Classictone. It's running 25-30v over schematic voltages. Maybe a mojotone would have produced a lower voltage but from the spec sheet, the classictone looked like it would. Choke and OT are mojotone.

    V1: rca 7025
    V2 : rca 7025
    V3: jan philips 12at7
    V4: rca 7025
    V5: EHX 12ax7 (replaced tung sol)
    V6: mullard ecc81(replaced jan 12at7)
    V7 and V8: JJ 6v6
    V9: JJ GZ34

    Speaker is a Weber 12F150 25w, no dope.

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  24. #164
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    Just did a swap and confirmed it was the previous phase inverter tube causing the bad distortion.

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