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Thread: 51 split coil P Bass pickup

  1. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    Here's a Split J pickup with large magnets I made one time.
    You might get some Ideas from it.
    http://music-electronics-forum.com/s...highlight=bass
    Another pickup you might try in your bass is a Blade Bucker.
    You could use the blade data for a Telecaster Bridge blade pickup.
    In my experimenting I liked about everything better than a stacked pickkup, but that's just me.
    T
    Ok. Nice clean PU.
    Perhaps split works on JB. And of course post '57 P Bass.
    I try to get dirty and brutal sounding PU to a Pre '57 Precision Bass. The magnets are big part of that sound (one per string and small diameter).
    I've made now two split coils to '51 style P Bass. I found them kind of too nice. But one bass player liked and bought one (7,6 kΩ). The latter with 8,5 kΩ is better.
    I've tried some guitar rail humbuckers on my bass. Kind of ok, but too far from original single coil.
    The stack is now in, and I found it best up to now.

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  2. #37
    Senior Member LtKojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okabass View Post
    To my original question I get very, very little information.
    On the contrary, you got a ton of excellent info, given by several different experienced professionals that happen to be members, that obviously went way over your head.

    " There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know.
    There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
    But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know. "

    - Donald Rumsfeld

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect

    FYI.

    NOW you can throw your usual temper tantrum.

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    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
    Milano, Italy

  3. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    On the contrary, you got a ton of excellent info, given by several different experienced professionals that happen to be members, that obviously went way over your head.

    Ok. Like what? Give me one example to think about.
    Why are you giving info that goes over my head? To prove something?
    I know a bit for example repairing or making tube amps, bass playing as a pro, watches...
    If someone is asking, I try to be as helpful as I could.
    I learned that from people that really know their stuff like late Peter Stevens (WAL basses), Ruokangas guitars, Tom Stenback, Johan Lundgren, Aiken amps, Finnish Watchmaker school teachers...

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  4. #39
    Senior Member LtKojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okabass View Post
    Why are you giving info that goes over my head?
    Oh, man... really?

    Well, after this statement, I think you'll better suited to post in the Beginner/Hobbyist section.

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    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
    Milano, Italy

  5. #40
    Senior Member LtKojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okabass View Post
    By the way, never heard anybody to glorify an italian made pickup.
    I'll skip over the passive-agressive racist/classist insult, thanking you for oh, so graciously making the point for me. Dunning-Kruger much?

    The non-sensical, almost hilarious question in response to my statement is obviously due to a non-up-to-par mastery of the english language, so as I'm in a generous mood, I'll skip over that one too. Suomi looks difficult enough as it is.

    Putting it very gently, contrarily to what you might believe, reality shows that you obviously don't know a lot of things. The content and the tone of your posts made it clear since you started posting here.

    After this, I feel even more confident than before that the given advice to post in the Beginner/Hobbyist section is the most adequate for you. At least you won't feel so often the swooshing sound of the given advice going over your head.

    Kuulemiin!

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    Last edited by LtKojak; 07-07-2018 at 03:06 PM.
    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
    Milano, Italy

  6. #41
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Like I indicated yesterday, the pickup forum is unique, and not necessarily the giving caring place okabass wants it to be.
    It never has been that, but is much more mellow than days of old.
    Here you will only get generalities, very few specifics.
    The rest is left up to the pickup builder to figure out, and do through experimentation.
    Like Pepe said if you want more, probably need to look, and seek elsewhere.
    So okabass, I think that's about all your going to get on this one.
    The rest is up to you!
    GL,
    T

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    It's only Rock and Roll, but I like it!

    Terry

  7. #42
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okabass View Post
    Yes. I'll ask with private messages or mail those who really know the matter. Some of you can continue to play in your sand pit. Sorry. Making pickups is facinating, but some of people are not.
    Only takes a few bad apples .. you know.

    " passive-agressive racist/classist insult"
    By the way "italian" is not a race. And that wasn't mean to insult, but statement: never heard anybody to glorify an
    Italian PU. Your comment proves it is true.
    And, like mentioned, for just general nonchalant pickup building, check out the Beginner/Hobbyist sub forum.
    I happen to be one of the moderators there at the B/H forum.
    http://music-electronics-forum.com/f...splay.php?f=64
    T

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    It's only Rock and Roll, but I like it!

    Terry

  8. #43
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okabass View Post
    Ok. Like what? Give me one example to think about.
    Why are you giving info that goes over my head? To prove something?
    I know a bit for example repairing or making tube amps, bass playing as a pro, watches...
    Allow me to explain a few things about the Pickup Makers Forum. The sysop here, tboy, invited the forum to his earlier site, AMPAGE, maybe 18 years ago after they lost their previous home. Back then Jason Lollar and many of the top boutique winders were regular contributors and amp guys considered it to be an honor and a privilege to be flies on the wall, able to listen in to their conversations. I made a few posts myself listing patent files for pickups that I had uploaded to my website but that was it... I was in the company of gods.

    http://www.blueguitar.org/new/misc/patents/

    When AMPAGE became MEF members had to register to post and many did not make the transition. Jason Lollar still posts here but not as often and has been joined by quite a few very talented although less well known pickup winders. As a matter of fact many of their discussions here these days are much more technical with intricate math (the days of "Magic Bean" recipes is long gone.)

    In any case as super moderator here whenever I notice inappropriate threads here (like asking for opinions on commercial pickups from DiM, SD, etc.) I move them to a better home, like "Guitar Tech." I had viewed this thread a few times but since it had been getting plenty of replies I saw no need to move it to the "Beginner/Hobbyist" forum which would have been a better fit.

    LtKojak from Milano, Italy is a highly respected member of this forum with 964 very helpful posts. Your replies to him have been highly inappropriate, especially your criticism of his use of English as a second, third or fourth language... geez, so he used the word "race" instead of "nationality". For all I know the distinction between the two terms is different in Italian than it is in English.

    Out of respect for Pepe I will be closing this thread for 7 days after which time I may or may not move it to the "Beginner/Hobbyist" forum.

    Steve A. — Super moderator, which just means that I can moderate all of the forums here... the last I checked I still couldn't fly!

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    Last edited by Steve A.; 07-07-2018 at 08:19 PM.

  9. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post
    Allow me to explain a few things about the Pickup Makers Forum. The sysop here, tboy, invited the forum to his earlier site, AMPAGE, maybe 18 years ago after they lost their previous home. Back then Jason Lollar and many of the top boutique winders were regular contributors and amp guys considered it to be an honor and a privilege to be flies on the wall, able to listen in to their conversations. I made a few posts myself listing patent files for pickups that I had uploaded to my website but that was it... I was in the company of gods.

    http://www.blueguitar.org/new/misc/patents/

    When AMPAGE became MEF members had to register to post and many did not make the transition. Jason Lollar still posts here but not as often and has been joined by quite a few very talented although less well known pickup winders. As a matter of fact many of their discussions here these days are much more technical with intricate math (the days of "Magic Bean" recipes is long gone.)

    In any case as super moderator here whenever I notice inappropriate threads here (like asking for opinions on commercial pickups from DiM, SD, etc.) I move them to a better home, like "Guitar Tech." I had viewed this thread a few times but since it had been getting plenty of replies I saw no need to move it to the "Beginner/Hobbyist" forum which would have been a better fit.

    LtKojak from Milano, Italy is a highly respected member of this forum with 964 very helpful posts. Your replies to him have been highly inappropriate, especially your criticism of his use of English as a second, third or fourth language... geez, so he used the word "race" instead of "nationality". For all I know the distinction between the two terms is different in Italian than it is in English.

    Out of respect for Pepe I will be closing this thread for 7 days after which time I may or may not move it to the "Beginner/Hobbyist" forum.

    Steve A. — Super moderator, which just means that I can moderate all of the forums here... the last I checked I still couldn't fly!
    Ok. Make this a closed group, then no mortal person can disturb your conversations and rites. I think I can get info and good conversations somewhere else. Thank you.
    Ps. Blueguitar is great site.

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  10. #45
    Pickup Maker David Schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okabass View Post
    Ok. Like what? Give me one example to think about.
    Why are you giving info that goes over my head? To prove something?
    I know a bit for example repairing or making tube amps, bass playing as a pro, watches...
    If someone is asking, I try to be as helpful as I could.
    I learned that from people that really know their stuff like late Peter Stevens (WAL basses), Ruokangas guitars, Tom Stenback, Johan Lundgren, Aiken amps, Finnish Watchmaker school teachers...

    How are you going to learn anything if someone tells you something you already know?

    If the concepts here are over your head, then you need to go and study the subject matter and stop being a pain in the ass.

    No one is going to hand feed you. Don't be lazy and do your own homework.

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    It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


    http://coneyislandguitars.com
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  11. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Schwab View Post

    No one is going to hand feed you. Don't be lazy and do your own homework.
    And I first only asked: " Like to hear your 'opinions' how hot to wind it? . What would be max turns ? My first intention is 8-9 kΩ. Is over 10 kΩ too muddy? "
    How much good "tons of information" you find here answering those questions?
    Homework? I've made some twenty different '51 P Bass pickups, tried them all at gigs, rehearsals and recording. Plus naturally made and rewound other type PUs.
    On curiosity: has somebody here made some twenty versions on´51 type P Bass PU and tried them all?

    Ps Your post have been helpful, like on stack Jazz PU., and many others. Thanks.

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    Last edited by okabass; 07-07-2018 at 10:22 PM.

  12. #47
    Master Destroyer nosaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okabass View Post
    And I first only asked: " Like to hear your opinions how hot to wind it? . What would be max turns ? My first intention is 8-9 kΩ. Is over 10 kΩ too muddy? "
    How much good "tons of information" you find here answering those questions?
    Homework? I've made some twenty different '51 P Bass pickups, tried them all at gigs, rehearsals and recording. Plus naturally made and rewound other type PUs.
    On curiosity: has somebody here made some twenty versions on´51 type P Bass PU and tried them all?

    Ps Your post have been helpful, like on stack Jazz PU., and many others. Thanks.
    Do you like your fries with extra salt? i don't but that doesn't make it any better or worse.. Wind it to 10k and report back Hell it may be the best pickup you've ever heard while to me it might sound like crap. It's not like your being asked to put your hand on a hot stove. Since you'e got experience winding do it and see what you hear.

    nosaj

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    Binkie McFartnuggets‏:If we really wanted to know the meaning of life we would have fed Stephen Hawking shrooms a long time ago.

  13. #48
    Senior Member LtKojak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okabass View Post
    I've made some twenty different '51 P Bass pickups, tried them all.has somebody here made some twenty versions on´51 type P Bass PU and tried them all?
    Man, if after twenty variations of the same p'up you still need to ask, maybe p'up winding is just not for you?

    Food for thought...?

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    Pepe aka Lt. Kojak
    Milano, Italy

  14. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LtKojak View Post
    Man, if after twenty variations of the same p'up you still need to ask, maybe p'up winding is just not for you?

    Food for thought...?
    Yes some 20 variations but not so many split coils. I made one several months ago, didn't like it. But one customer liked it and bought it. I did't make many notes cause it wasn't what I was after.
    Now a month ago I made one spilt coil to compare with a "Virtual vintage"-type (Di Marzio as a model), a cheap China rail humbucker, several single coils (a real '56 PU as a model, more wire, bigger magnets etc.) and a stack coil. Ended to use a stack coil.
    Still sorry to wake you up.

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    Last edited by okabass; 07-08-2018 at 03:56 AM.

  15. #50
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by okabass View Post
    Ok. Make this a closed group, then no mortal person can disturb your conversations and rites.
    Insulting the group after so many members have tried to help answer your questions shows no absolutely respect and gratitude, qualities which we value very highly on all of the forums and subforums at MEF.

    I think I can get info and good conversations somewhere else. Thank you.
    You certainly can... it is called the "Beginners/Hobbyists" forum moderated by Terry (big_tee). Don't let the name throw you off... Terry has wound hundreds of pickups and sold quite a few yet he doesn't usually play in the "big boys' sandbox."

    If it was up to me I'd drop the "Beginners" from the name of Terry's forum and add "Professional" to the "Pickup Makers" forum name to clarify things.

    Steve A.

    EDIT Magnet strength was mentioned in Posts #28 & 31. Many if not most of the professional boutique winders degauss their magnets to meet the needs of a particular customer for custom winds. Has this been part of your 20 experiments?

    Using the Google Search "site:" tag is handy for finding hits here, like this:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=dega...spv=1&ie=UTF-8

    Code:
     degauss magnets site:music-electronics-forum.com
    Here are 2 threads that came up:

    http://music-electronics-forum.com/s...ad.php?t=33494

    http://music-electronics-forum.com/s...ad.php?t=18716

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    Last edited by Steve A.; 07-08-2018 at 11:00 AM.

  16. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve A. View Post

    EDIT Magnet strength was mentioned in Posts #28 & 31. Many if not most of the professional boutique winders degauss their magnets to meet the needs of a particular customer for custom winds. Has this been part of your 20 experiments?

    Using the Google Search "site:" tag is handy for finding hits here, like this:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=dega...spv=1&ie=UTF-8

    Code:
     degauss magnets site:music-electronics-forum.com
    Here are 2 threads that came up:

    http://music-electronics-forum.com/s...ad.php?t=33494

    http://music-electronics-forum.com/s...ad.php?t=18716
    Ok. Thanks.

    Yes I tried different magnet strength on '51 type PU. But I always ended "full strength", what I could get with a wise and neodymes. Perhaps on guitar degaussing has more use.

    For example I make more tests with a SPB-1 (Duncan) as guinea pig. I have a watchmakers degaussing machine and magnetometer. With them I get Alnico 5 rod from ca. 1000 to 150 Gs. Tried different turns and magnet strength. And ended full strength mags and ca. 11 kΩ. Thats what I use now on my post '57 PB.

    What I noticed that original vintage 7ender PUs have surprisingly "right" values (I have measured for example a '56 PB, '65 PB, '73 JB and several other new PUs as a reference ).

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    Last edited by okabass; 07-08-2018 at 01:25 PM.

  17. #52
    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    I liked this thread much better when it was closed.
    I guess DS opened it back up.
    This horse has been well beaten!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's only Rock and Roll, but I like it!

    Terry

  18. #53
    Supporting Member Steve A.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    I liked this thread much better when it was closed.
    I guess DS opened it back up.
    This horse has been well beaten!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	giphy.gif 
Views:	16 
Size:	786.3 KB 
ID:	49648
    When I closed it the second page disappeared... "Holy Shit, what did I do?!?"

    Let me try again...

    Steve A.

    P.S. Hmmm... I first closed the thread on Page 2. So I guess that threads respond differently when closed on a page other than Page 1. Mystery solved?

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