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Thread: Mercury Magnetic JTM45-RI-P wonít fit.... Help.

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    Mercury Magnetic JTM45-RI-P wonít fit.... Help.

    Hello everyone, got a situation here. I ordered a chassis for a jt45 build. I was going to use my Mercury Magnetics Axiom jtm45-ri-p Power Transformer (center to center 2-1/2 x 3-1/8Ē) but itís too small. The holes on the chassis are 2-78 by 3-5/8 which I believe is the metro-amp standard chassis size. So my questions are: what gives?? Is this PT special? Can anyone recommend a chassis that would fit or do I have to do a custom chassis order for this PT? Thanks.

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    Can you just drill new holes? The transformer is upright or the laydown style?

    https://reverb.com/item/13212544-mar...w-iec-knockout

    this person can make a custom chassis for you but not sure if you need it all predrilled and pre cut

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    re-issue transformers are not always the same size as the originals. I suppose the metro is using the original size PT.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    But, whatever else Mercury does, they usually clone accurate for mounting from what I've read. So the RI must use a different size transformer than an original, which is likely what the Metro chassis is cut for.

    It's a clone, not an original. Even boutiquey type amps often have odd cutouts and plugs for correction. Drill new holes or, if necessary, add a mounting plate or something. I don't think it's great shakes unless you're OCD over it.?.

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    Are the dimensions cut out size or location of the holes?. Anyway If your xformer is smaller, see if you can make it work using Fender Washers.

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    got any photos you can post of the transformer and chassis?

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    The only good solid state amp is a dead solid state amp. Unless it sounds really good, then its OK.

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    Some info anyway. Didn't think they had these all online.

    http://mercurymagnetics.com/images/p...JTM45-RI-P.pdf

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    The only good solid state amp is a dead solid state amp. Unless it sounds really good, then its OK.

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    Thanks to everyone. I will post some pictures when I get to my desktop computer. iOS forum doesnít have an option to upload images. Transformer is a tad too small, so drilling new holes in not an option. Iíll probably re-use this chassis for a proper sized PT. In the meantime Iím going to call MM to ask what they where thinking when they made this particular model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cluster View Post
    In the meantime I’m going to call MM to ask what they where thinking when they made this particular model.
    It is meant to fit the re-issue. I don't think the vintage size one will fit the re-ish.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Why make enemies when you may be in the wrong.?.

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    I'm finding it hard to believe that you couldn't make it work. Maybe some drilling, maybe a trip to the hardware store for washers, etc. Looking at your numbers in the first post and the datasheet Mike so graciously posted, the transformer should cover the holes in the chassis. Nobody would see any "adapting" you'd have to do internally in order to securely mount it.

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    here are my pictures...
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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Round into the corners of the cutout and use an unsecured adapter plate inside. Sort of sandwich the chassis between the transformer and the plate. You'll need to make the plate, of course. Shouldn't be too hard if you have the tools.

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    "Never bet your life on somebody else doing their job." SoulFetish's good friend

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    This is what I'm thinking.

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    "Never bet your life on somebody else doing their job." SoulFetish's good friend

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

    "Back to the amp. It makes horrible sounds when I play my guitar thru it... because I suck at playing guitar." Mike6158

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    I like Chuck H's idea!
    Usually, I'm going the other way, and draw the size hole I want on the chassis, and get a friend with a mill to open it up for me. I'm currently building a Bassman 10, using the iron from a re-issue Twin!

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    Or if you're not a drill and tap guy, give Patrick Selfridge at MM a shout, ask him what chassis makers make a chassis that this transformer fits and maybe exchange the chassis? I realize shipping is the bear here. Bought more than one thing that seemed to expensive to ship back, so my shelf of "unused things" has grown a bit.

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    The only good solid state amp is a dead solid state amp. Unless it sounds really good, then its OK.

  17. #17
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    I doubt anyone (other than Marshall) is making a JTM45 chassis cut for the reissue transformers. I would expect any after market chassis to be cut for a clone transformer which would mount on an original chassis. That Mercury transformer is made as an upgrade for a reissue amp, so it fits the reissue amp chassis. Unless you can buy a reissue chassis I think using it with any other after market chassis is going to require retrofitting.

    Mercury might make an Axiom PT in the stock size. Good luck getting them to swap trannies though.

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    The adapter plate is a great idea and certainly a better one. That said, if you don't have the tools or skills to make the plate, I would think the right size washers with the rounded in corners would be plenty sturdy.

    Edit: I thought I'd edit Chuck's drawing to illustrate what I'm talking about. (washer indicated in red X4)
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    Last edited by The Dude; 08-25-2018 at 01:34 AM.
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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    I don't see any reason that couldn't work. In fact, there's not much stress relief by making the full sized adapter plate since the long tweener sections have no real support. May even rattle.?. Fender washers would be fine for this. You might need to add some kind of spacer (hard rubber?) between the unsupported end of the washer and the transformer to keep the washer plane parallel to the chassis for the best stability. The adapter plate solves for this by itself, but is a lot more trouble to fabricate.

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    "Never bet your life on somebody else doing their job." SoulFetish's good friend

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    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

    "Back to the amp. It makes horrible sounds when I play my guitar thru it... because I suck at playing guitar." Mike6158

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    Filing out the corners like Chuck suggested sounds like the best idea. Washers would probably be fine, but you could make a couple of straps out of flat bar and it would give you most of the advantages of the adapter plate while being much simpler to make. If it's a top-mounted transformer in a head there isn't much stress on the mountings anyways.

    Andy

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    Thanks everyone for your excellent help. What would you think about just rotating the PT 90 degrees and drilling new holes. See attached pictures. May be the easiest solution at the moment. I just wonder if rotating the PT would adversely the magnetic field of the OT sitting next to it. Thoughts??
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluster View Post
    Thanks everyone for your excellent help. What would you think about just rotating the PT 90 degrees and drilling new holes. See attached pictures. May be the easiest solution at the moment. I just wonder if rotating the PT would adversely the magnetic field of the OT sitting next to it. Thoughts??
    The PT orientation as shown in the left picture is not advisable as it will increase hum injection into the OT. The leakage field of the PT is max. at right angles to the winding, i.e. at the coil's window.
    For minimum coupling the magnetic axes of PT and OT should be at right angles.

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    Last edited by Helmholtz; 08-25-2018 at 03:15 PM.
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    Try the old headphone trick to check transformer hum in different locations.

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    please explain..

    Quote Originally Posted by mac dillard View Post
    Try the old headphone trick to check transformer hum in different locations.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mac dillard View Post
    Try the old headphone trick to check transformer hum in different locations.
    THAT! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Big +1. If you commit to using that PT regardless of mounting method then there's nothing to lose trying it both ways to see if it hums in the other orientation. It may for the reasons Helmholtz stated, but often times it works anyway. The obviously worst orientation would be both transformers upright with the lams parallel. THAT'S the one to really avoid. So try it in both orientations and drill the new holes if it doesn't hum. If it does you're just back where you started.

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    so basically, I would have to assemble the entire amp to working spec and then test to see if it hums? then rotate PT 180 degrees if it does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck H View Post
    THAT! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Big +1. If you commit to using that PT regardless of mounting method then there's nothing to lose trying it both ways to see if it hums in the other orientation. It may for the reasons Helmholtz stated, but often times it works anyway. The obviously worst orientation would be both transformers upright with the lams parallel. THAT'S the one to really avoid. So try it in both orientations and drill the new holes if it doesn't hum. If it does you're just back where you started.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Sort of. The PT would only be tack soldered in, no wire routing yet and it would not be fixed to the chassis. The extra 2/3 inch of standoff from the mounting screws probably won't make a significant difference. Then you would try it with the PT in both orientations. Once you know which way you want to mount it you would retrofit accordingly. That is, drill four holes or round in the corners. It's not as bad as it seems to work the chassis once it's a built amp. Just tape some paper in place to keep metal shavings and dust out of the chassis. A bigger issue might be if you needed to troubleshoot some other build problem. Trying to work on the amp without the PT mounted properly could be cumbersome.

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    Headphone trick....http://www.ax84.com/faq.html#hp-tri see #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by cluster View Post
    so basically, I would have to assemble the entire amp to working spec and then test to see if it hums? then rotate PT 180 degrees if it does?
    It is not necessary to assemble the amp. Just place the transformers on a table at the same distance as on the chassis, connect the PT primary to mains, insulate all other wires, connect headphone to the primary of the OT, other wires open - and change orientation.
    I have never seen an exception to the rule I gave above.

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    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helmholtz View Post
    I have never seen an exception to the rule I gave above.
    The JTM45 reissue chassis I looked at actually do have the PT mounted 45* rotated compared to the originals. I've never heard one so I can't say if they hum.

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    "Back to the amp. It makes horrible sounds when I play my guitar thru it... because I suck at playing guitar." Mike6158

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    Thanks everyone. I took Chuck's advice and drilled out some holes at the corners of the punch out. Used some large washers and it works. Hope to get a custom made bracket at some point to tidy it up but for now it works. thanks again.

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  32. #32
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Cool! The washers were actually mac's idea first, then Dude suggested it. No matter. Now that you've done it I'm sure you can see that there is an unsupported end on each washer. It they don't have enough footprint on the chassis and want to take an angle you could just bridge the hollow with something like thick rubber gasket material. Something a little thicker than the gap I would think. Probably no other advantage to a custom plate or bracket than appearances.

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    "Never bet your life on somebody else doing their job." SoulFetish's good friend

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    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

    "Back to the amp. It makes horrible sounds when I play my guitar thru it... because I suck at playing guitar." Mike6158

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    Bloomfield's idea from post #20 would also help deal with that issue.

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    Thanks everyone. I wish I had a machine shop. Life would be so much easier. I could make my own brackets, chassis or whatever, etc...

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  35. #35
    Bent Member Chuck H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluster View Post
    Thanks everyone. I wish I had a machine shop. Life would be so much easier. I could make my own brackets, chassis or whatever, etc...
    preaching to the choir brother cluster.

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    "Never bet your life on somebody else doing their job." SoulFetish's good friend

    "Now get off my lawn with your silicooties and boom-chucka speakers and computers masquerading as amplifiers" Justin Thomas

    "Being born on third base and thinking that you must have hit a triple is pure delusion!" Steve A

    "Back to the amp. It makes horrible sounds when I play my guitar thru it... because I suck at playing guitar." Mike6158

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