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Thread: poly-coated wire connection?

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    poly-coated wire connection?

    About to wind my first pickup: Strat Style. Alnico 5 poles, 42 AWG poly-coated wire, All Stewmac stuff.

    1. If 42-43 AWG is coated, either poly or enamel,when you first tie it to the brass eyelet of a bobbin, how does the poly-coated wire make an electical connection? Does the heat of the solder when you solder all the wires to the eyelets etc melt the poly/enamel and just connects that way, or does one need to carefully strip 42 AWG wire?
    2. If the thin wire does snap while I'm winding the pickup... what do I do? Will the wire just scatter off the bobbin and end up like a birds nest in my hand, or can one recover? Do you need to unwind, and re-wind to make sure the tension stays at lest remotely the same? And again... if the wire snaps, do you have to strip the wire to tie it back on to the spool and continue? How else will it make a connectioin to itself? Do you solder the tiny connection?
    3. Is it advisable to take a resistance reading while the bobbin is still on the winder, or do you pretty much have to take it off, take a reading, and then reattach it if you are not where you wanted to be yet?


    These probably all seem like such obvious question to you guys, but to me, none of the online videos that I've seen address these three topics.

    Thanks guys!

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    Last edited by big_teee; 12-21-2018 at 03:27 AM.

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    Welcome to the B/H forum.
    No question is too basic here.
    Poly wire is an excellent choice and what you want to use to get started.
    Poly does not have to be stripped to solder.
    Plain Enamel, and Heavy Formvar wire, both do need some stripping. (Pulling through folded fine sandpaper, works well)
    If you are using a winder with a turns counter, you can just wind the coil and check DCR after winding.
    Or check it before cutting the wire at the end.
    For a first pickup, I would splice the wire if you break it.
    Wire will not birdnest if it breaks.
    The wire will stay where you put it.
    What else?
    Anyone else have anything to add please do!
    Terry

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    I haven't watched it in a while, but seems like this was a good vid for Strat Single coils.



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    Having made far too many pickups where a splice was required, I would say it is better to just wind until you have no more room on the bobbin/coil, measure, and then remove as many windings as it takes to get to your desired DC resistance. One splice is fine, I suppose, but you really don't want more than that, since splices tend to inflate the coil by taking up more space. So it is better to overshoot and back up, bit by bit, if you want to arrive at a particular DC resistance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    Poly does not have to be stripped to solder.
    So the heat from the solder just melts through the super thin poly coating?

    **********************************

    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    If you are using a winder with a turns counter, you can just wind the coil and check DCR after winding.
    Or check it before cutting the wire at the end.
    I bought the StewMac Pickup Kit for Stra So I plan on making:
    • Single Coil
    • 42 awg poly wire
    • Alnico 5 (don't know the length of the pole pieces; StewMac's desc. doesn't say)
    • 8,000 turns
    • 65 tpl (as best as I can attempt anyway)


    I had planned on measuring the resistance after 8,000 turns. I am not sure what it is 'supposed' to be though.

    **********************************
    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    For a first pickup, I would splice the wire if you break it.

    As opposed to what?

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    As opposed to cutting it all off and starting over.
    Yes, the heat will melt the poly coating.
    Not sure how Stewmac does the eyelet, but you want the smooth side to the inside, and the solder side on the bottom.
    8000 turns should be in the 5800-6200 ohms DCR.
    Depends on how tight, and how much you scatter wind.
    What winder do you have?

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    One thing not mentioned is protecting the magnets, on a single coil pickup.
    In the old days bobbins were dipped twice in lacquer, and were allowed to drip dry.
    Some guys still do that.
    The rest of us tape the magnet bobbin core.
    You can use paper masking tape, mylar tape, waxed floral tape.
    The important thing is to protect the magnet wire from shorting out on the magnets.
    If not protected, they will short out.

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    Last edited by big_teee; 11-06-2018 at 02:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    What winder do you have?
    I made it myself.

    It has a 10,000 rpm geared motor
    A speed controller that goes from 0 - 10,000
    Can spin CW and/or Counter-CW
    A guide bar with shaft collars that I can "tune" and set to keep the wire wrapping true on the bobbin
    A counter display that counts up to 99,999. (Boy what a pickup that would be lol!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelscottPerkins View Post
    So the heat from the solder just melts through the super thin poly coating?
    If the poly is designed to be stripped by soldering, like soldereze, yes. Temperature is critical. Most need 750 F to strip the poly. You want the iron hot enough that the wire solders instantly, with a puff of smoke.

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    Any luck winding that first pickup yet?

    Here's typical winding data for a CBS type Single coil.
    Use either PE, or Single poly.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by big_teee; 11-07-2018 at 05:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    ---Here's typical winding data for a CBS type Single coil.- - -
    big_teee,
    I'm having trouble understanding some of the data in the chart. Specifically, I don't get how the "max layers" and "max winds" for the loose scatter and tight scatter can be less than the "layers" and "winds." Is that just a typo or is there some pickup winder's convention that I don't understand yet?
    Thanks,
    Bill

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    Do you see how the loose scatter, and tight scatter are in red?
    It is red because those values will not fit on the bobbin.
    So you have to move up to the black text, for it to fit on the bobbin.
    I hand wind, and usually wind around 90-91%.
    So if you take the next to the right collumn?
    148×53.6=7932.8
    Which is about right.

    This is just a estimating guide to calculate general information before winding.

    Heres a Humbucker bobbin.
    5000 turns would get you close.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by big_teee; 11-07-2018 at 07:29 PM.
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    Okay. Now that I know red means won't fit oh, I get it. Given that I guess the winds data in the table should be read to in the first two columns. Correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reader View Post
    Okay. Now that I know red means won't fit oh, I get it. Given that I guess the winds data in the table should be read to in the first two columns. Correct?
    I just printed what I had on the screen.
    If you want to use scatter, you would need to adjust the table for less DCR ohms.
    Here's the basic estimator that you can vary the input, and play with.
    It's not what I use, but you can get a lot of variables with it.
    http://www.jdguitarworks.com/coil/coil.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    Any luck winding that first pickup yet?

    Here's typical winding data for a CBS type Single coil.
    Use either PE, or Single poly.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for checking in Terry!

    I have not yet would the pickup. I have built my pickup winder's housing, and I have mounted the motor and all that jazz. But I have yet to solder it all together. I have never touched a soldering iron in my life, so I think I am stalling by asking theroetical questions to keep from just f*****g getting after it! There are just SO many questions, and it seems like each step leads me down another rabbit hole.

    For example, to wire up my pickup winder, I simply need to...
    1. Connect a three-way DPDT switch to a 10,000 rpm 12 V DC electric gear motor
    2. Connect the switch to the two terminals of a 12 v power supply
    3. Connect a PWM adjustable driver Speed controller that has a little potentiometer knob


    That's it!!!

    I also have a little counter that is just an LCD display attached to a "wand" that has a magnetic sensor at it's end. The motor is mounted behind it, so that whenever the pickup makes one full revolution, a magnet on the bobbin holder will trigger it to count: 1, 2, 3... etc. But that whole counter thing is battery powered. So I don't even have to worry about wiring it all in with the motor, speed controller, and power supply.

    So I go to Home Depot to buy some wire, some wire strippers, and some heat shrink tubes, mostly to cover up my solders, which I am anticipating not being too pretty. But there are a ton of choices for wire. I ended up buy 12 gague solid wire. But I do not know if that was the right thing to get. I don't know why wire comes in solid and in stranded form. I also do not know if 12 volts is "a lot" and requires this thicker 12 gague wire, or if I could have gone with 14 or 16. I went heavier, because... well... it felt right. Ha ha ha!!! But my budget is so tight, I always want to make sure it is the right thing before I open it, because I will want to take it back it is doesd turn out to be wrong. And the sage continues.

    Oh man... if only I had more cash to put into just "going for it!" But again... thanks for checking in! I appreciate it Bud.

    Michael

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    I'm pretty good on basic winding, and basic pickup winding questions.
    I just use a commercial made winder.
    For winder building questions?
    I recommend starting a new thread in this area.
    https://music-electronics-forum.com/...splay.php?f=18
    Tools and coil winding gear.
    We have a bunch of guys that are great at winder building and questions there.
    T

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    ... loose scatter
    ... tight scatter are in red?
    ... hand wind. -- As opposed to...???
    ... usually wind around 90-91%
    ...148×53.6=7932.8
    Click image for larger version. 

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    All of the above terms that you used in your last post are not something i know how to interpret. I do know that "Scatter" refers to the fact that a machine like a CNC can wrap a coil in perfect parallel layers with little cross-over of wires from left-to-right, whereas when you move the wire left-to-right by hand, there will just naturally be some overlapping of wires because you aren't moving at a perfect rate that is sync'ed up with the motor wrapping the coil.
    A loose scatter must mean that you move left-to-right more quickly causing a lot of overlapping of wires, where as a "tight scatter" sounds like you mean you go slower from left-to-right, making the overlaps closer together, and probably less frequent as well.
    I do not, however, know what "loose machine / tight machine" means. Since you are holding the wire between two fingers, I don't really know what "tight" means. I am sure that if the wire snaps... that was too tight. And if the wire is just saggy and turning into a copper birds nest on ya... that's too loose. But... I don't know what to shoot for, and I really don't know what 90-91% means.

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    That is the terminology of the original program developer.
    Mr Salvarsan, came up with that.
    If you look at the winds per layer, that is in correlation with the amount of scatter.
    100% machine, would mean all wind turns side by side touching filling the entire layer.(93 winds)
    62% loose would mean some overlap, and only 58 wind turns would fill the layer, thus loose scatter.
    I use the program to see what wire will fit on the bobbin and how many turns the bobbin will take to fill.
    Which is a great tool for a new wind of a new pickup type.
    On repetitive winds, I recommending having a notebook with all your favorite winds listed.
    Here's an example of what you can put in your notebook.
    https://music-electronics-forum.com/...9&d=1432942278

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    Here's an example of what you can put in your notebook.
    https://music-electronics-forum.com/...9&d=1432942278
    This is awesome man! Thanks!

    If you get a chance, I have a couple of question about your spreadsheet
    • Polarity: I know that Magnets have a N and a S polarity. But for this form, does this mean "Which pole is facing... up?"
    • Gauss: I know that Gauss refers to how intensely "charged" a pickup's magnets are, but how does one measure Gauss to record in this spreadsheet?
    • Wire Type: This refers to coating, right? All wire is 100% copper. There is also the gauge, but other than that... the "Wire Type" would be like: "Poly, Enamel... etc."?
    • Microphonics Test: I've never heard of this at all.
    • Thread Base Plate: I know that some Telecaster pickups have a brass plate, but I don't know why, or when to use one, and when to not. (???)
    • Screws, Springs, Tubing Etc.: I have seen on StewMac some foam that people cram under pickups to keep them "up", and I know that on all of my guitars the pickups have screws on each side that has a spring around them to keep the pickup height under tension so that it stays at a certain height, but also won't just flop forward if you lean Fwd. Does this affect a pickups sound? If not, why record it?



    Man... I feel bad. I told you I had a lot of questions.

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    I made that sheet when I was selling and shipping some pickups.
    The checkoff list is so I wouldn't forget to do or ship something
    N/U North up, or south up.
    Gauss is what your magnets measure
    Wire type 42SPN, or 43PE, etc
    Thread base plate, did that for fiber baseplates.
    Screws springs tubing, Did I put them in the box?
    Microphonic, and pop test, I do with test leads hooked to an amp.
    There are a bunch of aids on the resource thread.
    https://music-electronics-forum.com/...ad.php?t=30228
    Don't worry about the small stuff, wind a pickup!
    T

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelscottPerkins View Post
    I made it myself.

    It has a 10,000 rpm geared motor
    A speed controller that goes from 0 - 10,000
    I would not be winding pickups any where near 10000 rpm , try less that 1000 .

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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelscottPerkins View Post
    About to wind my first pickup: Strat Style. Alnico 5 poles, 42 AWG poly-coated wire, All Stewmac stuff.
    [*]Is it advisable to take a resistance reading while the bobbin is still on the winder, or do you pretty much have to take it off, take a reading, and then reattach it if you are not where you wanted to be yet? [/LIST]

    Thanks guys!
    I would never wind a pickup to a set resistance, the number of turns counts, not the readings! I use the resistance just to know if something went wrong with the counter or the wire size.

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    Old Timer Leo_Gnardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alberto View Post
    I would never wind a pickup to a set resistance, the number of turns counts, not the readings! I use the resistance just to know if something went wrong with the counter or the wire size.
    Halleluja and amen to that!

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    I agree on the using turns for winding.
    Winding is a double edge sword, and we all compare our pickups to standards of old.
    Unless you're doing something new or cutting edge.
    Example, with 42.
    Neck bucker= 7.2-7.8K
    Bridge bucker 7.8-88k Full coils
    Strat 42
    neck = 5.5- 5.9k
    middle= 5.8-6.3k
    Bridge=5.8-6.8k
    If you sell pickups, everyone wants to know what the DCR is and how hot they are.
    We all try to avoid that, but it goes with the players.
    Another thing, some basic builders don't have counters, and wind to DCR.
    I did that for several years.
    Like I say here, we use what we got.
    So wind by turns, but cross reference to DCR, we all do it.
    T

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    I've been tinning the magnet wire before tying it onto the eyelets for the past few months. It works great.

    Tinning the wire before tying it on guarantees a solid connection, and the wire is also much less prone to breaking on the flatwork edge due to improper handling. Tinning toughens it up quite a bit. Another benefit is you can test DCR when you're done winding simply by probing the eyelets themselves, as the tinned wires will have made an electrical connection already without further soldering. I like doing this just to make sure the pickup is reading out as expected before soldering the leads on and wax potting it.

    Just tin your soldering iron tip, hold the wire taut, and run it up and down a couple inches until you can see the wire is silver from the solder. I like a couple quick passes on top of the wire then underneath. Now you're good to tie the wire onto the eyelet. Repeat for the finish wire. It's much easier to hold it taut with a homemade tensioner, which brings me to my next point:

    One thing that can help ensure no wire breakage is a Velcro tensioner with a hemostat. Rob from Cavalier Pickups taught me this and it works without fail. I cut the tensioner out of single-ply pickguard material. You have two pieces, to which you attach soft (Loop) Velcro. The idea is you sandwich the magnet wire between the two pieces of soft Velcro, which are adhered to the inside of two separate pieces of single-ply pickguard material.

    An 8" hemostat clamps over the pickguard material, and the wire is sandwiched between the Velcro. You can see an early version Rob made here:

    http://www.tdpri.com/threads/pickup-...-redux.475685/

    I've been using one of those Stewmac "Kerfing clamps" over the area of the Hemostat where it locks. Sometimes it can snap open, and scare the Bejeesus out of you. The kerfing clamp over the hemostat locking area will ensure that the hemostat doesn't unexpectedly pop open, either while you're winding, or handling the tensioner.

    I've tried the Mojotone tensioner and Rob's velcro tensioner is 1,000x superior. I wind on my machine that I built out of a mini woodworking lathe, and easily hit 2500 RPM and NEVER break wire, ever. Rob winds at least at 4,000 RPM using this method and never breaks wire either. The tensioner totally prevents this from happening if set up properly.

    I don't know about going to 10,000 RPM But you can certainly at least go 2500 or 4000 and probably even 5,000 using a tensioner, without fear of breaking the wire. It also gives you the benefit and pleasure of hand-guiding the wire so you can scatter wrap.

    I made a thread in the Tools subforum, about a "DIY De-Reeler." I highly recommend making something like that for containing your spool of wire. When you hit higher RPM's, the wire will tend to whip around everywhere, and that can cause it to catch or snag or break.

    By containing the magnet wire spool in a plastic jar, with a dowel in the center to keep it stable, and guiding the wire through a wooden bead epoxied into the top of the jar, I NEVER have issues with de-reeling.

    I've also become a believer in Wisker Disks. Especially for 5lb spools, where the spools flange out and can cause a lot of problems with the wire de-reeling. I posted about this in this thread, and included pictures of the housing I'm using now for my 5lb spools:

    http://www.tdpri.com/threads/my-home....770387/page-2

    Long Story Short: Make a Velcro tensioner so you don't have to worry about wire breaking. Problem solved. Tin the magnet wire before tying it onto the eyelets. Don't worry about DCR mid-wind. Rely on turn count, find recipes you like and stick to them. Reserve DCR for checking pups after they're finished, for quality control.

    I'll also add the Velcro tensioner has a learning curve. The way you lay the wire onto the pad, where you put the jaws of the hemostat, how much you tighten it, it's very touchy-feel and requires some experimentation. Same goes for using the thing. You'll find that you can angle it up or down, and move it forward or back closer or farther away from the bobbin, and vary your tension that way. You have a great amount of control with it and set up properly, should never EVER break wire. I've gone through over 15lbs of wire in the past few months winding at 2500 RPM and didn't break the wire a single time, except for one spool that was defective and had de-reeling issues. Which I am hoping the Wisker Disk will prevent from ever happening again.

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    I'll go with most of what slight return says.
    However the tinning the poly wire prior to putting it in the eyelet, is an unnecessary step.
    Poly wire solders very easily,
    The velcro tensioning sounds ok.
    The 2500 rpms would be a bit faster than I like to wind.
    If you break that down further?
    A 5000 turn humbucker bobbin?
    At 2500rpm, 2 minutes.
    At 1250 4 minutes
    At 1000 5 minutes
    At 625 8 minutes.
    If you are a hobbyist, all of these speeds, and times are reasonable.
    It is important to wind at a speed you have proper control.
    If you are a beginner starting out, I recommend starting slow, and build up to what your maximum speed is.
    Like driving a car, beginners start slow and learn the basics before driving at full speed on the autobahn.
    T

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    Last edited by big_teee; 12-07-2018 at 09:06 PM.
    It's only Rock and Roll, but I like it!

    Terry

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    Member Alberto's Avatar
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    I use Hi-Hat felt washers and clutch for tensioning and the wire never breaks.

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    I use my fingers, and I don't break a lot of wire either.
    If I do break wire, it is usually 44, and not often.
    The trick to successful winding is to do lots of it.
    If you only wind on occasion, which is my trend now, it's all a struggle!
    T

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    It's only Rock and Roll, but I like it!

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    Supporting Member John_H's Avatar
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    My favorite for a home made tensioner is the adhesive backed felt pads used as furniture protectors. They have a rigid backing, dense felt, and then a soft felt surface. I stick those to little 'C' clamps.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Wow, 2,500 rpm. That's moving. My winder maxes out at ~2,100. It'll do it no problem, but I usually wind at 1,200 to maintain consistency from one pickup to another.

    This is my winder at 1,500 rpm.


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    CNC Trial by Fire kayakerca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alberto View Post
    I use Hi-Hat felt washers and clutch for tensioning and the wire never breaks.
    My felt tensioner felt sounds very similar. I use thick piano hammer felt.

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    Take Care,

    Jim. . .
    VA3DEF
    ____________________________________________________
    In the immortal words of Dr. Johnny Fever, “When everyone is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking.”

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    To clarify: poly coating is made to strip off with soldering. If you simply tie the wire onto the start eyelet, wind the pickup, and tie the wire onto the finish eyelet, and solder your leads on, you'll be good to go, as the soldering process will strip the insulation and make a solid electrical connection. It's that simple.

    Tinning the poly wire before wrapping around the eyelets is not necessary, but I think it makes life easier in the long run. The wire makes a solid electrical connection this way simply from being tied on. This offers a host of benefits. The only downside is tinning the magnet wire is easier when you're using some sort of tensioning setup. If you're winding by hand with a naked spool on the floor, you may find it difficult to tin the delicate wire without a tensioning device to hold it in place with one hand, while you run the iron along the wire with the other hand. The wire, for easiest results, needs to be taut for this.

    If you're not using a tensioning device, and just winding by hand, it may be less frustrating to skip the tinning process altogether. Nonetheless, here are some benefits to tinning, which IMO especially apply to beginners:

    -Test the pickup without needing to solder the eyelets. Once you get solder in the eyelets, if you want to rewind the pickup for whatever reason, you need to put the pickup in a vise, use a solder sucker to get it out, and re-file and smooth out the flatwork in order to prep it for winding again. If for whatever reason you need to tear down a freshly wound pup, tinned magnet wire will allow you to simply cut all the wire off and start over, with no further cleanup necessary. The time it takes you to tin the wire will certainly be less time than it will take you to get the solder out of the eyelets and smooth your flatwork out again before rewinding.

    -Test the pickup mid-wind. Tinning the wire before tying it onto the eyelet is simply the cleanest, easiest, and most efficient way to make an electrical connection to the eyelet without soldering the eyelet. Soldering the start eyelet before you mount and wind your bobbin can be very problematic. With tinning the wire before wrapping, there are zero problems, and you have a solid electrical connection simply from tying the wire on, which makes testing the pickup mid-wind dead simple.

    -It makes the fragile wire a bit more durable and less likely to break while handling, where it wraps around the edge of the flatwork and the eyelet. I always flow my joints with a little flux after soldering the pushback wire on, and the flux causes the solder to flow very nicely over the tinned magnet wire edges. They're quite hard, and resistant to breaking from mishandling after that.

    -It also makes it dead simple to test your pickup before soldering the lead wires onto the eyelets. When I was starting out, I wound through snags and other seemingly slight errors that I thought would be inconsequential, only to find that, after I had soldered the pushback leads on, the pickup was messed up, and needed to be rewound. You can save yourself some pain with tinned magnet wires over the start and finish eyelets, as you can verify with a multimeter whether anything wonky is going on with your pickup BEFORE you solder the leads on. Once you solder the leads on, you will need to de-solder them and file/sand the eyelets flush again before rewinding.


    Tinning the wire is something I personally do, and will always do. However, I've made dozens upon dozens of pickups WITHOUT tinning the wire, and they turned out fine. It is not necessary for making an electrical connection, however, it is necessary for making an electrical connection without soldering the eyelets, which carries at least several benefits that I've explained above.

    For me, the advantages far outweigh the small amount of extra work it takes to do it, and IMO tinning the wire before tying onto the eyelets is much more beginner-friendly, when you're going to, in all likelihood, be doing a lot of tearing down and re-winding as you learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slight Return View Post

    If you're not using a tensioning device, and just winding by hand, it may be less frustrating to skip the tinning process altogether. Nonetheless, here are some benefits to tinning, which IMO especially apply to beginners:

    Tinning the magnet wire allows you to...
    • Test the pickup without needing to solder the eyelets
    • Test the pickup mid-wind
    • It makes the fragile wire a bit more durable and less likely to break while handling, where it wraps around the edge of the flatwork and the eyelet
    • It also makes it dead simple to test your pickup before soldering the lead wires onto the eyelets


    Tinning the wire is something I personally do, and will always do.

    For me, the advantages far outweigh the small amount of extra work it takes to do it, and IMO tinning the wire before tying onto the eyelets is much more beginner-friendly, when you're going to, in all likelihood, be doing a lot of tearing down and re-winding as you learn.
    Wow... @Slight Return... you had me at, "Hello!"

    I will definitely be tinning my pickup wire. It all makes perfect sense.

    You mention a tension device often in your post. Do you mind telling me what tensioning device you have/use? I have seen this little hand-held StewMac "tensioner", but that thing looks like just a tiny fishing pole handle that uses two felt pads screwed together to pinch the wire a little, between the felt pads, so that the tension is at least relatively "the same" throughout a wind. I can't imagine this is what you are talking about, as it looks like it would make tinning the wire even harder.

    I guess you could tie the wire to a small weight, like a glass salt shaker or something, hang it over your pickup winder's "arm" thingy, lay a book on the other end so that it now looks like you have hung the salt shaker like in a middle-ages execution hanging. Then you could tin the wire anywhere along the taught "noose-wire" for about 1 inch or so, and then just cut the salt shaker free at the tinned-inch. Wouldn't that do it?

    I'm still interested to hear about your tensioner. And thanks for the reply. That was extremely helpful!

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    ToneOholic! big_teee's Avatar
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    Not to be a downer on pickup making enthusiasm?
    If tinning the wire helps someone, then go for it.
    BUT, on poly coated wire it is completely unnecessary.
    The other caution on tinning a long piece of wire, is you could create shorts.
    To solder the wire to the eyelet, wrap the wire in the eyelet.
    Make sure the tip of the iron is tinned and shiny.
    Then solder the eyelet, the poly will melt easily.

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    It's only Rock and Roll, but I like it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_teee View Post
    The [other] caution on tinning a long piece of wire, is you could create shorts.
    That's a really good point. I am not knowledgable enough to envision in my head how this might short something, but it does seem like if you have an up-to 1 inch section of tinned wire, when you poke the tinned part down into the brass eyelette, and you solder it...

    Well... actually... I guess I don't know what you mean big_tee. I have a feeling in my gut that you are dead-on right... I just can't imagine it.

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    To further clarify:

    Yes, shorts would be possible, and I forgot to mention I think it's important to tin only the length of wire that will be wrapped around the eyelet. You can do this by threading the tinned wire through the eyelet until you reach the coated, insulated part of the wire, then begin tying. When you're done tying the tinned wire around the eyelet, you should not have any tinned wire on top of the flatwork. Only the loops that go around the eyelet and flatwork edge. Though I haven't had any issues from having more wire tinned than this, I personally would not let any tinned wire go near the rest of the coil, or as Terry said, you could get shorts.

    It's a little trickier on the finish wire. I just hold the wire taut by the bobbin, and start tinning around where the eyelet starts. You'll get a feel for it after a while. The lighting here is appalling, but I've added some text to get the point across about how I tin my magnet wire leads:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This one shows better how the solder wicks right up the tinned wire after flowing with a little flux. Not necessary but I like how it makes it almost bulletproof to mishandling damage:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    @Dolmetscher007

    The complete system I use is here. The tensioner I use is Rob's idea from Cavalier Pickups, and uses an 8" hemostat (can be found on eBay for cheap), and loop (soft) Velcro on two pads. Rob uses special grade plywood for the two tensioner pads that the Velcro mounts on. I personally use single ply pickguard material, as I find it's the perfect thickness to be able to get the hemostats clamped on easily. I simply cut out single ply pickguard material on the bandsaw to the shape you see in the pics below. Two pieces, each with loop Velcro. The wire simply goes on top of one piece, and you place the other piece on top to sandwich the wire between them.

    The placement of the wire in the tensioner makes a difference. Closer to the edge of the tensioner will allow for more clamping pressure, and if you go too tight, the wire will break. What you want is to feel a slight tug while winding, no more. The nice thing with this tensioner is you can angle it forward or back, and change the distance you hold it from the bobbin, to alter your tension as well. This is a very touchy-feely thing that you'll get to know thru experience. NOTE: a kerfing clamp, like the ones from Stewmac, help a LOT with guaranteeing that your Hemostat does not randomly flip open and scare the bejeesus out of you while you're winding.

    Simply put the kerfing clamp over the locking part of the hemostat in order to keep it locked. It is NOT fun having those things spring open on you unexpectedly. The kerfing clamp totally prevents that.

    In my experience, the Whisker Disk was a big help too, and I would absolutely recommend getting one. The Whisker disk pre-tensions the wire to an extent, prevents de-reeling issues, and makes the whole process of winding much more user friendly.

    Whisker Disks can be found here:

    http://azonicproducts.com/ordersheet.htm

    The size you need for a 1lb spool of Remington wire is 2 - 1/2 inches, or 63mm, L.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The jar I modified is a simple jar from the kitchen section at Wal-Mart. I drilled a hole in the bottom of the jar: that's where you can put a dowel, secured in with a washer and a wood screw. You will probably have to hand sand the dowel to the proper thickness, but the goal is to have the hole in your spool of wire slip snugly over the dowel, so it holds the spool in place, while still allowing you to remove it if you need to.

    The top of the jar has a hole drilled out, and then reamed, to accommodate a wooden or glass bead, which I epoxy or superglue in place for good measure. The idea is this: your spool is now enclosed in a sort of magnet wire bomb shelter, which prevents the dereeling wire from whipping around outside the jar. It also protects it from dust and accidental damage. For small 1lb spools, you can use peanut butter jars or anything similar. Very easy to find small plastic jars on eBay. All you need to modify them is a drill bit, a dowel, a reamer, a wood screw, a wooden or glass bead, and epoxy or superglue. I do smooth out the hole in the wooden beads with a rat tail file just to make sure it doesn't abrade the wire.

    The wire goes through the bead, and hence only has a very small area it can come out of. This really helps clean up the dereeling process and totally prevents the wire from going anywhere it shouldn't.

    Using the Velcro tensioner and hemostat, you can simply leave the tensioner in place when you're done, and lay it down on top of the jar. When you wind next time, you'll be able to more or less perfectly replicate the tension from your last wind, as your Velcro tensioner is in exactly the same position as it was before. I leave my tensioner like this for entire 5lb spools and never have to adjust it, except when I change to a new spool. This keeps things very consistent.

    The "breaker bar" I made is just polished steel rod (I used an old transfer punch) with drill stops mounted on it for traverse limiters. I used dowels and plywood, a Forstner bit, regular drill bit and some glue to put it all together. It looks very crude and can easily be reverse engineered by looking at it.

    I have the "breaker bar" with the traverse limiters set up like this: 1.5" higher than the center screw on my bobbin mounting platform, and about 4.5" away from the center screw on my bobbin mounting platform. I don't think these dimensions are critical, but as a starting point, these work well for me.

    I've tried the Mojotone tensioner. It is a fine option, and it does work. Personally, I would try both and see what you like best, but if you can get your hands on some single ply pickguard material, some loop Velcro and a hemostat, that method is cheaper to start with, and is what I've been using personally with very good results. There is no "best" way to wind pups, only what works for you.

    Here is a short demo of my setup. This is before I used the kerfing clamps. The Hemostats are fine in this vid without the clamp, but I use them all the time from now on.

    BTW: My old nightstand works fine for wire gliding over it. I lucked out there. You can either just hold the tensioner far enough away so it isn't touching anything except the breaker bar with the traverse limiter, or you could set up a separate polished rod mounted somewhere for the wire to go against as it's dereeling, before it reaches the breaker bar.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx-KJf7M-4c

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    Last edited by Slight Return; 12-20-2018 at 09:03 PM.

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